Visa through having a Thai child

[Thai Bart]

I see there is an old post on this started by fishsauce, regarding obtaining a visa through your Thai child. Starman has replied but I am confused as he states court papers, What papers are these starman as I don't have any, only the birth certificate. Also what is the amount of money needed in your account please.
Many thanks for any additional info/advice.
TB

[Starman]

First....are you legally married to the child's mother?

If you are not then, under Thai law, you are not a legal guardian of the child. This is not only for foreigners but also Thai fathers.

In order to become a legal guardian you must apply to the courts for a legal document stating such.

[Adam]

Starman, what is this about? Just wondering for me in the future.....

[davureborn]

We are looking at legal custody (not adoption) so that our brat can get a year of schooling in the UK at some point. I was told that at over a certain age you are very unlikely to be allowed to adopt, and that if immigration suspects that this is happening because you want an 'O' visa then they may make difficulties also. We asked at the Amphur in Buriram, that's what they told us. Go there first with a Thai speaker.

[Geordie Boy]

A person could be named on the birth certificate as the father, but his rights are NOT legalized under Thai law. Even with a DNA test, he could be the father on the birth certificate and be the biological father, but he won't be the LEGALIZED FATHER.

There are 3 exceptions mentioned in article 1547:

1.    If there is a subsequent marriage between the parents
2.    If there is a registration made at the amphur
3.    If there is a judgment by the Court.

Exception one is easily understood.

Exception Two is more complex: Both parents must consent that the Father is the legitimate Father and the local authorities (Amphur or Khet in Bangkok) will normally require the child to be old enough to understand and accept this situation.

In Thailand, each registration office is different and they often do not apply the same rules. However, they will normally legalize the Father ONLY when the child is over 7 years-old, able to sign his name, able to consent, and all parties will have to give their consent to the local registration office.

If the child is younger and there is an attempt to register the Father's rights at the amphur, the applicant is often told to get a judgment from the Court before it will be possible to legalize the rights of a Father. After a Court decision is rendered and, if it is positive, becomes enforceable (after 30 days), it is then possible to use the judgment to legally register the parent’s rights at the amphur.

Exception Three: Re a judgment by the Court, see the section below called "action to legitimate a child under a Thai Court".

Unmarried parents can make a simple agreement between them related to custody but the agreement won't be enforceable by Law. An example is the Supreme Court judgment 7473/2537. In that case, the plaintiff and the defendant cohabited as husband and wife but did not register their marriage. They had one child together, namely; Mr. Yor. According to Thai Law, the plaintiff is NOT the legitimate father of Mr.Yor and has no rights or obligations (duties) over the child. It is clear that the mother has FULL and SOLE parental powers. But the plaintiff and the defendant made a settlement agreement stating that Mr. Yor shall live alternatively 2 weeks with each party. The Supreme Court stated that this agreement cannot be effected pursuant sections 850 and following of Civil and Commercial Code. Therefore, the plaintiff cannot enforce the defendant to comply with such an agreement.

If the Father of a child who is not married to the Mother wants to accquire rights over a child by LAW, he must do it according to section 1547 of the Thai Commercial and Civil Code.

[Starman]

A person could be named on the birth certificate as the father, but his rights are NOT legalized under Thai law. Even with a DNA test, he could be the father on the birth certificate and be the biological father, but he won't be the LEGALIZED FATHER.

There are 3 exceptions mentioned in article 1547:

1.    If there is a subsequent marriage between the parents
2.    If there is a registration made at the amphur
3.    If there is a judgment by the Court.

Exception one is easily understood.

Exception Two is more complex: Both parents must consent that the Father is the legitimate Father and the local authorities (Amphur or Khet in Bangkok) will normally require the child to be old enough to understand and accept this situation.

In Thailand, each registration office is different and they often do not apply the same rules. However, they will normally legalize the Father ONLY when the child is over 7 years-old, able to sign his name, able to consent, and all parties will have to give their consent to the local registration office.

If the child is younger and there is an attempt to register the Father's rights at the amphur, the applicant is often told to get a judgment from the Court before it will be possible to legalize the rights of a Father. After a Court decision is rendered and, if it is positive, becomes enforceable (after 30 days), it is then possible to use the judgment to legally register the parent’s rights at the amphur.

Exception Three: Re a judgment by the Court, see the section below called "action to legitimate a child under a Thai Court".

Unmarried parents can make a simple agreement between them related to custody but the agreement won't be enforceable by Law. An example is the Supreme Court judgment 7473/2537. In that case, the plaintiff and the defendant cohabited as husband and wife but did not register their marriage. They had one child together, namely; Mr. Yor. According to Thai Law, the plaintiff is NOT the legitimate father of Mr.Yor and has no rights or obligations (duties) over the child. It is clear that the mother has FULL and SOLE parental powers. But the plaintiff and the defendant made a settlement agreement stating that Mr. Yor shall live alternatively 2 weeks with each party. The Supreme Court stated that this agreement cannot be effected pursuant sections 850 and following of Civil and Commercial Code. Therefore, the plaintiff cannot enforce the defendant to comply with such an agreement.

If the Father of a child who is not married to the Mother wants to accquire rights over a child by LAW, he must do it according to section 1547 of the Thai Commercial and Civil Code.

All correct.

If you are the named father on the birth certificate then the next process is fairly straight forward.

You need to go to the office that is situated in the juvenile detention centre on the road from Buriram to Prakonchai.

Easy to find. Head out past the football stadium. Straight on at the next set of traffic lights. Go past the golf course. Just as the 4 lane is reducing to 2 lane you will see a building on the right. That is where you need to go. The interview process is quite straight forward. I have been interpreter for a couple.

You will need an intermediary there who can speak Thai and English, as when you get married. The details will be explained and you need someone to translate, if you cannot speak Thai, so that you understand. Your wife/girlfriend cannot translate for you.

In Buriram you can do this when the child is at any age.

[Thai Bart]

Many thanks gentlemen very informative, I wrongly assumed because I was named on the birth certificate, that I had some legal obligations but obviously not. Very surprised that any unmarried father even Thai is considered to have no responsibility towards the child. Strange place this land of smiles, now I can see why the Thai men here find it so easy to be butterflies 555.
Kind regards all.
TB

[dutchdog3000]

Hi all, well this is the only post that I could find about dependent child visa so hope someone can help. Currently on a multi O (marriage visa) doing the 90 border runs and visa expires april next year, well as marriage is going no where and looks like finishing I intend to apply at immigration for extension based on dependent child (I have 2 10yr old twin girls) and wife is very happy for the twins to stay with me. Can anyone help me with doc's and requirements to do this and when should/can I apply for this? Can I do extension from my current multi O visa?I will be renting an house (under her name) and will get twins on house book when done. I will be applying via 40k mth and will get the required income letter from NZ embassy (do I have to get this letter verified by MFA Bangkok?) I read that only some IO's require this. thanks and I suppose that I will have many more questions as when the time gets closer. tc all

[Tod Daniels]

dutchdog3000
I believe unless you go thru family court and get 'parental rights' granted as the father, you're not gonna be able to get an extension of stay by just being listed on the birth certificate.

Now, because the kids are 10, you might (as in it's totally up to each individual amphur), be able to take the kids, the mother and yourself to the local Amphur and get listed in their log book as the recognized father (which grants the parental rights just like family court does). Then apply for the yearly extension of stay based on supporting them with the proof of financials from your embassy's stat dec letter.

Conversely, if you're still married to your wife when your year-long, multi-entry Non-O expires next year, you could just as easily go back to Savannakhet and pull another one for a year.. Even if you divorced during that year, it wouldn't affect the visa itself and it'd be good for the year's validity. Divorcing only affects an in-country extensions of stay based on marriage. It doesn't affect a year long multi-entry visas gotten outside the country based on marriage (as long as you were married when you got the visa).

Good luck..

[Starman]

Hi all, well this is the only post that I could find about dependent child visa so hope someone can help. Currently on a multi O (marriage visa) doing the 90 border runs and visa expires april next year, well as marriage is going no where and looks like finishing I intend to apply at immigration for extension based on dependent child (I have 2 10yr old twin girls) and wife is very happy for the twins to stay with me. Can anyone help me with doc's and requirements to do this and when should/can I apply for this? Can I do extension from my current multi O visa?I will be renting an house (under her name) and will get twins on house book when done. I will be applying via 40k mth and will get the required income letter from NZ embassy (do I have to get this letter verified by MFA Bangkok?) I read that only some IO's require this. thanks and I suppose that I will have many more questions as when the time gets closer. tc all

The first thing you need to do is to go and make your application to become the legal father of your children. You need to make an appointment. The office is located at the Juvenile Detention Centre. This is located on the Buriram to Prakhonchai road. As you are heading out of Buriram, at about the 10km mark, the 4 lane road will change back into 2 lanes. The building is the one on the right. You need to go to the offices on the right hand side of the complex. You will need your wife's full co operation.

Not sure about Buriram Immigration, but KapCheong immigration would not issue an extension of stay based on having a child if you are married. They ask you to go down the marriage route.

As and when you are able to get an extension based on having children you can indeed use your existing 0.

Why are you going to rent a house in your wife's name? This is likely to cause some difficulties. I would also advise that you find some other way of proving that you are living with your kids, rather than move them onto a house registration of a rented property. I would keep them registered where they are. This will also help with applications for schools and such like in the future. Remember that when you apply to become the legal father if your children this does not give you sole custody. The mother will still also be a legal guardian, the mother receives this legally at birth of the child. Any form filling in the future will also require the mother's signature.

This situation is a bit of a mine field. It may be best, as previously suggested, to keep the marriage going in order to enable you to get multi entry O visas. Check with Buriram Immigration also, about if they have the requirement that you cannot extend based on kids if you are married. If they do follow this rule then a divorce will be required. Probably something that, for now anyway, should be saved for another thread and another day.

[dutchdog3000]

todd and starman, thanks for your informative replies. As before I was sure that being married when the twins were born and with my name on birth cert I was the legal father. I also had conerns about still doing my multi O in Savanaket because 2 border site have now stopped people with same multi O visa doing runs over/back and are saying they must leave country by plane, this was reported in Thaivisa. As the country is heading downhill you never know what will happen next hence the need for me to fix up this mess. once again thanks for your help

[dutchdog3000]

And as me and kids are staying more and more at the rented house I have to fix up with TM28/TM30 forms, the other concern is if I do marriage extension with photos etc (which can be done) then immigration turn up and wife gone off again that might be a problem. I am going to do border run early Dec so lets hope this border does not do same as the other 2 borders.

[Starman]

The report about visa run problems was at Poipet. They are notorious for making problems.

[Tod Daniels]

dutchdog3000; It appears you are correct, by being married when your children were born you were legally recognized as their father, although as has been pointed out, unless you get granted sole custody in the divorce decree the mother's signature will be required on things you're doin' for the kids.

I trust the Thai Visa forum about as far as I can piss and I have an enlarged prostate.. Once you wade thru the endless misinformation and b/s you can on rare occasion get accurate information.

There were a few reports but AFAIK right now the border crossings with Lao or Cambodia are fine with people "border-bouncing" if they were hold valid multi-entry visas. In fact, just called two visa run companies here in Bangkok. One goes to Poipet and the other goes to Ban Laem, both said there are no problems in border-bouncing for valid multi-entry visa holders.

Kanchanaburi stopped everyone for a while but has since re-opened for people holding valid multi-entry visas and even the ones up Chiang Mai Chiang Rai way will now let people on valid multi-entry visas "border-bounce" to activate another entry.

There's no down side to listing the kids in another house book. All that does is state where they live, period. I wouldn't rent a place in your wife's name because should it go sideways you could find yourself out on the street. Just rent it in your own name, you can be listed in a yellow house-book even if you rent it and you kids could get listed in the blue house-book as thais living at that address too.

report back after your border-bounce and let us know how it went.

Good Luck.

[Starman]

Having your name on the birth certificate makes you the father of course. It does not, however, make you a legal father/guardian. Legal guardianship goes to the mother. I know this as I have been an on site interpreter for expats who have gained legal guardianship by going through the process I pointed out above.

It has nothing to do with you being foreign by the way. It is the same for Thai fathers.