Land preparation for growing vegetables

[iammike]

We will start building our house at the end of next year but I am wondering how already start preparing  some land (1 rai or so) for growing vegetables in the future.

My BIL said just get Pig and Cow sh.t in and mix that in with the soil gradually over the year. (He will do the work anyway;))

So what do you guys think.

Ps: it's not a commercial business.

[davureborn]

Well, what kind of soil do you have? Heavy clay like most of us? I had plenty of builders' sand left over and I gradually mixed it in, being careful not to turn 'too heavy' into 'too light'. Even better would be charred rice husks as I have seen elsewhere but not around Buriram. Cow pooh is good but it's action is pretty rapid, there won't be much left in a year's time. It also contains many weed seeds. It should encourage worms to grow which is what you need, they will die off however as soon as the organic matter is exhausted. Rice straw, applied liberally, will keep the weeds (and accompanying seeds) down and raise the organic content of your soil.
Took me two years to get my clay soil the way I want it and then work out what would grow and what wouldn't.

[CO-CO]

Well, what kind of soil do you have? Heavy clay like most of us? I had plenty of builders' sand left over and I gradually mixed it in, being careful not to turn 'too heavy' into 'too light'. Even better would be charred rice husks as I have seen elsewhere but not around Buriram. Cow pooh is good but it's action is pretty rapid, there won't be much left in a year's time. It also contains many weed seeds. It should encourage worms to grow which is what you need, they will die off however as soon as the organic matter is exhausted. Rice straw, applied liberally, will keep the weeds (and accompanying seeds) down and raise the organic content of your soil.
Took me two years to get my clay soil the way I want it and then work out what would grow and what wouldn't.

Thanks for that info Davu. Would you mind sharing what has been successful for you - and what hasn't.

Surprised about the biochar. I have had lots from near Prakhonchai. I think I paid for 400 Baht for loading at the factory then 100 Baht per kilometre - rounded down to 2,000 Baht for a 25 km trip. Can't recall the quantity but it was a 6 wheel truck.

[iammike]

Thanks DavU.

Yeah the soil is the standard clay stuff.

We will also start experimenting and start "mixing".

One question, what do you mean by "Rice Straw" is that the stuff that is left on the field after the rice harvest? We have a lot of that because the BIL uses it for his cows. Charred rice husk shouldn't also be no problem as I will use this as filling for the double walls when building the house (but that's another story )

Thanks

[davureborn]

Rice straw, yes the stuff that is left over after harvest, should be ploughed in really. My son in law generally takes enough for three huge haystacks  so that in time of need the cows have something to eat but it isn't very nutritive. When I have vegetables that are strong enough I will apply a thick layer of straw between them, maybe giving cow pooh first (the lovely dried stuff that looks like peat). I have the only pitchfork in Thailand, so easy enough.
Please tell me how to get rice husks!
Success: our soil is riddled with soil born pathogens. This means that anything from the solanaceae family (tomatoes, egg plants, melons....) has to be grown quick and ripen quick as it will eventually start to wilt and die, almost overnight. Too hot for onions and garlic. I am now experimenting with wood vinegar to sterilise the soil. What grows well: ginger, maize, cucumbers, beans, kabuk, all herbs like dill, basil and so on. Chilli is ok up to a point until it starts wilting also. elephant's ear yams, passion fruit, and, after a long period of trial and error, pepper corn. Spinach, Thai lettuce, ....
It's deciding how you are going to combat beasties that is important, the magic insect repellents are of limited value and get washed off easily. When you see those lovely, perfect melons at the roadsides and compare them with your organically grown, misshapen, withered melons, you may decide not to buy any more melons....

[iammike]

Thanks, good info !!

The Rice husk we can buy from the local guy who "sie" the rice (undo the rice from the husk). Every village has one of those machines (I guess). They give  a full bag of Rice (which includes the husk) in the morning and a couple of hours later they get a Bag with Rice (without the husk) back from them.

About the beasties what about some Ducks/ Geese as a natural killer, but of course you have to be careful they dont start eating the veggies

My FIL has a nice vegetable plot in the village, so we will asking him to help us out, the same with start raising of Tilipia or Tabtim in one of the ponds (the plot has 2 ponds (1 is around 1 rai and the other around 0.5 Rai)

Thanks again for the good info.

Ps: I think I have seen pitchforks in True Value in Pattaya

[davureborn]

Yes we have plenty of that. We need charred (biochar) rice husks, not the same thing at all.
Ducks and Geese?Are you crazy?They will eat, destroy and soil everything in their path. They won't be able to catch the flying petas, nor will they want to with all that nice succulent greenery afoot. Good luck!

[iammike]

As you can see, I am a complete noob in this, that's why I open a topic on this and ask IMHO if you don't ask questions about stuff you don't know much about you will never know if what you are doing (or thinking) is the right thing.

Thanks for calling me crazy

I can ask my BIL if he can get the charred version of the Rice Husk or is that also something different ?

[CO-CO]

Good thread this.

The only stupid question is the one that you are scared to ask!   

Biochar is the burnt rice husk and you get it from the 'power stations' - they are the places that create electricity and sell to PEA. Once the husks have beeb burned they become charred or 'biochar'.

We use the rice husks to put down to absorb water in working areas. The problem is that they can have all sort od bugs/seeds etc in them. The charred husks do not and are an excellent addition to soil to help water retention.

I know bugger all about farming or gardening but I am learning as I go. My knowledge is limited to what I have learned already. Tomorrow I will have more knowledge 

[iammike]

Good thread this.

The only stupid question is the one that you are scared to ask!   

Biochar is the burnt rice husk and you get it from the 'power stations' - they are the places that create electricity and sell to PEA. Once the husks have beeb burned they become charred or 'biochar'.

We use the rice husks to put down to absorb water in working areas. The problem is that they can have all sort od bugs/seeds etc in them. The charred husks do not and are an excellent addition to soil to help water retention.

I know bugger all about farming or gardening but I am learning as I go. My knowledge is limited to what I have learned already. Tomorrow I will have more knowledge 

+1

Thanks for explaining

[davureborn]

Ok if you think being called crazy by a complete madman like me is an insult I will desist.
Traditionally the rice husks are charred at home, my wife tried it but can't do it,looks so easy when you watch.

[iammike]

In this topic (I have no idea about the other topics ) you are not a Madman at all, you are the expert and I am the Noob as I clearly have no idea what I am doing or getting myself in to And I am very grateful that you share your knowledge.

The Big RiceMill near Krasang has the stuff (what I have been told (I hope)) and after New Years (when I am back there) will check it out

[finnomick]

iammike -- if you do start to bring on fish, respectfully I would advise the tilapia over the taptim. They grow faster and are less visible to the wading birds. A visit to the Buriram Fishery to see what is available is a good idea and one of the ' old girls ' there will happily chat with you about the fish and what's best for raising them. Another consideration with the fish is whether you want to sell them to raise some cash or just grow them for home consumption. There are two kinds of tilapia available, normal and hormone treated. Normal grow normally going from 2cm to plate size in about 2 to 3 years. Hormone treated reach plate size in about half the time -- basically they are eating machines and do not breed being mono-sex. Feed is another consideration for speed of growth. You can buy 20kg sacks of fish food with 15% protein content for about 330 baht or pay a lot more for 25% protein content, up to 530 baht per 20kg sack.  We are just experimenting with Pacu which looks identical to a piranha. The growth rate is amazing. The misses says they taste good too but all fish taste good to the locals. If you want a nice white, firm flesh fish  ( try saying that after a beer or two ), pla chon aka snakehead is really good. The misses dips this in her home-made batter and deep fries it together with chips and mushy peas. It's a lot harder to raise pla chon because they really need to be in an enclosed ' pond ' because they are a ' walking fish ' and they are much more prone to disease so I ( and the fishery )think it best to grow them in a concrete tank or similar with a good filter system.

Sorry to kidnap the ' land preparation ' link but you did mention fish.

Another very good source of fertilizer is the spent growing medium of straw mushrooms -- available from mushroom growers no less but be prepared to fight for it because it is so popular. If you have established vegetables, do not use it raw, let it rot down for a few weeks. Otherwise spread it over your land and plough it in with the straw and anything else you get your hands on.

Like CoCo, we have a lot of grass so when I cut it, I turn it into compost which doesn't take long here because of the heat.

[CO-CO]

iammike -- if you do start to bring on fish, respectfully I would advise the tilapia over the taptim. They grow faster and are less visible to the wading birds. A visit to the Buriram Fishery to see what is available is a good idea and one of the ' old girls ' there will happily chat with you about the fish and what's best for raising them. Another consideration with the fish is whether you want to sell them to raise some cash or just grow them for home consumption. There are two kinds of tilapia available, normal and hormone treated. Normal grow normally going from 2cm to plate size in about 2 to 3 years. Hormone treated reach plate size in about half the time -- basically they are eating machines and do not breed being mono-sex. Feed is another consideration for speed of growth. You can buy 20kg sacks of fish food with 15% protein content for about 330 baht or pay a lot more for 25% protein content, up to 530 baht per 20kg sack.  We are just experimenting with Pacu which looks identical to a piranha. The growth rate is amazing. The misses says they taste good too but all fish taste good to the locals. If you want a nice white, firm flesh fish  ( try saying that after a beer or two ), pla chon aka snakehead is really good. The misses dips this in her home-made batter and deep fries it together with chips and mushy peas. It's a lot harder to raise pla chon because they really need to be in an enclosed ' pond ' because they are a ' walking fish ' and they are much more prone to disease so I ( and the fishery )think it best to grow them in a concrete tank or similar with a good filter system.

Sorry to kidnap the ' land preparation ' link but you did mention fish.

Another very good source of fertilizer is the spent growing medium of straw mushrooms -- available from mushroom growers no less but be prepared to fight for it because it is so popular. If you have established vegetables, do not use it raw, let it rot down for a few weeks. Otherwise spread it over your land and plough it in with the straw and anything else you get your hands on.

Like CoCo, we have a lot of grass so when I cut it, I turn it into compost which doesn't take long here because of the heat.

More good info  -  thanks Mick.

"nice white, firm flesh"   hmm.... I came to Thailand for something a bit different    .......... but 100% correct where fish is concerned.

Can I ask where the Fishery is in Buriram.

[finnomick]

I know exactly where you are coming from CoCo -- but white ?

The fishery in Buriram -- directions as follows. Heading into Buriram from Prakhon Chai on the 219, just after the new 4 lane section starts there is a turn to the left ( not sure of the distance exactly but less than 1km ). There used to be a big green sign there but they have now replaced this with some weird stone ' erection '. Along this road you come to a village where there are some speed humps across the road. You then enter a wooded area where the council have some offices and again more speed humps. Straight on and the road is on top of a dam. A couple of hundred metres after the dam, the fishery is the first thing you'll come to on your left hand side. Drive through some metal gates ( no signs that I've noticed ), ignore the offices and head out to the fish sheds. If you need a guide, I'll gladly show you exactly where it is but I'm not available until after the 10th of December.