Yet Another Gun Outrage in USA

[Prakhonchai Nick]

For me, more guns = more violence = more deaths.

I don't think anyone can disagree that this is most certainly the case in Thailand, although Thailand is not the subject of this thread.

[urleft]

For me, more guns = more violence = more deaths.

I don't think anyone can disagree that this is most certainly the case in Thailand, although Thailand is not the subject of this thread.

John Lott would disagree with you: 

http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-ebook/dp/B003S9W5HQ/ref=dp_kinw_strp_1

His book, More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws, Third Edition (Studies in Law and Economics) discribes his research.

[nookiebear]

I believe a bottle of Jamesons is on the table should CoCo win Urleft over!

I think CoCo will take that bottle to his grave

[Prakhonchai Nick]

Probably -but it will be empty for sure!

[urleft]

One reason I love Thailand is the freedom.  You want to open a local business, you do so and fix the paperwork later.  And  the paperwork is not that bad.  In the US (and I have heard the same about the UK), it is a nightmare to open a business with all the hoops the GVTs (city, state, federal) force you to comply, before you open.  And unaccountable GVT employees make up new requirements all the time. 

When I grew up in the 50s/60s America was a different place.  People would be like Thailand and have businesses (eg. gas station stores) where they lived.  That type business is almost totally extinct in the US as people being sued out of business, house and home became common place. 

Freedoms are be taken away daily, hell, you can't even make a 75 watt incandencent light bulb in the US anymore.  What total crap is that? 

So I am not willinging to give up my rights for that some say are the "Greater Good".   To me that is a excuse to expand GVT control of the people.    Some other data:

http://www.conservativedailynews.com/2012/07/the-ultimate-gun-rights-article/

In fact, research by economist and author John Lott and Bill Landes shows that states that allow law-abiding citizens to carry concealed handguns enjoy a 60 percent decrease in multiple-victim public shootings and a 78 percent decrease in victims per attack.

On my view of rights being taken away:

http://theshinbone.com/awban.2.htm

What the judiciary calls “arms,” Obama and his congressional allies call “assault weapons.”  That’s not by accident.  It’s a conscious, incremental step toward outlawing the ownership of firearms altogether.  If that sounds paranoid, then ask yourself what else the president might have had in mind when he said on Meet the Press that “something fundamental in America has to change” where gun ownership is concerned.

This is how politicians proscribe an object or activity without having popular support for doing so.  They don’t attempt to pass an outright prohibition, but instead indirectly regulate it out of existence.  The American people would never have supported a ban on incandescent light bulbs, for instance, so no such thing was proposed.  The way Congress did it was to pass new efficiency standards that were not realistically attainable.  Likewise, Obama’s mandate to double fuel efficiency standards by 2025 is a means of preventing the manufacture of certain larger, heavier vehicles, without having to face the controversy that would arise from explicitly forbidding it.

How many of you have heard about the "Assault Weapons" ban, how it needs to be reinstated?  Do any of you know what an Assualt Weapon is?   It is a rifle that looks military, but can only fire one bullet at a time for each trigger pull.  Fully automatic weapons have been mostly illegal (can obtain with special permit) for over 50 years.  Banning assualt rifles is just another incremental step towards disarming law abiding citizens. 
 

[CO-CO]

I believe a bottle of Jamesons is on the table should CoCo win Urleft over!

I think CoCo will take that bottle to his grave

I think even the Jameson distillery would not be a sufficient incentive. .....

Belief is admirable but intransigence leaves you myopic.

People, especially the scholars, can pontificate as much as they like but the fact remains - violence breeds more violence. Anyting dangerous in the wrong hands causes death.

I wish everyone a happy and safe New Year.

[urleft]

Throughout this thread, whilst many differing views have been expressed, it has been clear that Urleft is only concerned about HIS rights, and has paid little or no attention to the rights of the American population at large to have their views heard and considered.

That may be true but he has still remained polite, unthreatening so deserves his right to speak on BE here with us unlike many ex-members. I have never met the man incidently or do I agree with his viewpoint. Lets try not to be Judge Judy and Executioner.    

Thank you Nobby. 

[urleft]

I believe a bottle of Jamesons is on the table should CoCo win Urleft over!

I hate to admit it, but it would be wasted on me.  I don't have the taste buds to appreciate fine whiskeys (wines).  I have tried most Jamesons to include a $200 bottle of special reserve, and it was just another whiskey to me. 

[Ahab]

I will pretend to be won over for a 30 year old bottle of Glenfiddich.

[Prakhonchai Nick]

Voters in Switzerland will go to the polls on Sunday to decide on proposals aimed at restricting gun ownership.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12414841

At least the Swiss are doing more than just talking about it.

[urleft]

Voters in Switzerland will go to the polls on Sunday to decide on proposals aimed at restricting gun ownership.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12414841

At least the Swiss are doing more than just talking about it.

Believe it or not, I support letting the voter decide about 75%.


The reason I don't support it 100% is because of how the question on the vote could be phrased:


Question 1:   Do you support taking away the rights of US Citizens to support a gun free environment? 


Question 2:  Do you support restricting guns for being available to people to perform mass killling  at schools?   


I believe most US citizens would vote NO on question 1, but maybe a majority would vote YES question 2, even though they are almost the same question.   



I completely distrust my Government.  I vote no on anything that could infrindge on my rights or increase taxes. 

[Prakhonchai Nick]

I somehow doubt that if voters in the USA were asked to decide, the questions would be phrased as suggested. Nevertheless they would attract a No from Urleft  as they would obviously be reducing his "rights"

It would be interesting to know what the Swiss voters were asked to vote on. One for Sao baht to investigate perhaps!

[nookiebear]

Voters in Switzerland will go to the polls on Sunday to decide on proposals aimed at restricting gun ownership.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12414841

At least the Swiss are doing more than just talking about it.

The Americans will hardly talk about it!

[Speros]

Voters in Switzerland will go to the polls on Sunday to decide on proposals aimed at restricting gun ownership.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12414841

At least the Swiss are doing more than just talking about it.

Believe it or not, I support letting the voter decide about 75%.


The reason I don't support it 100% is because of how the question on the vote could be phrased:


Question 1:   Do you support taking away the rights of US Citizens to support a gun free environment? 


Question 2:  Do you support restricting guns for being available to people to perform mass killling  at schools?   


I believe most US citizens would vote NO on question 1, but maybe a majority would vote YES question 2, even though they are almost the same question.   



I completely distrust my Government.  I vote no on anything that could infrindge on my rights or increase taxes.

No offence to anyone but I think the average voter in most countries are too stupid to be allowed to vote, democracy is a nice idea, but a poor design to get good results out of a society.

[Prakhonchai Nick]

No offence to anyone but I think the average voter in most countries are too stupid to be allowed to vote, democracy is a nice idea, but a poor design to get good results out of a society.

Couldn't agree more. Half the people in Isaan only vote in elections because they are paid to vote. They never watch the news, nor read newspapers, and have no interest whatsoever in government.  Give them 300/500bt, and they will eat out of your hand!