Yet Another Gun Outrage in USA

[urleft]

Might I suggest that many violent crimes in the USA go unreported, and are dealt with personally by the people concerned. Hence the high homicide rate.

In the UK, the police are invariably involved.

You are almost correct here.  Most of the unreported crimes involve attempted robbery, rape, other and the would be victim used a gun to end the confrontation.  Then because of the likihood of nothing being done or the possiblity of the victim charged with some kind of crime, these go unreported. 

[Speros]

Fox Affiliate Thoroughly Debunks Piers Morgan’s Gun Homicide Statistics

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/01/10/fox-affiliate-thoroughly-debunks-piers-morgan-s-gun-homicide-statisti

Swann said, “The stat that Piers Morgan was continuing to cite, one that Great Britain which banned guns about fifteen years ago had only 35 gun-related murders in 2011 compared to the United States which had 11,000. Let’s start there because that number is not correct.”

Swann then broke down the FBI crime statistics for 2011 showing that there were 12,664 homicides in the U.S. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.

“But of those,” said Swann, “400 are listed as justifiable homicide by law enforcement, 260 justifiable homicide by private citizens.” ....


But that’s just the beginning, because what anti-gun media members such as Morgan completely ignore is the differing crime rates relative to the population.

“The U.S. has the highest gun ownership rate in the world, an average of 88 guns per 100 people,” Swann stated. “That puts it first in the world for gun ownership.”

If there was a significant correlation between gun ownership and homicide, America should therefore be one of the highest nations in the world in terms of gun-related murders per fixed number of people.

Not so said Swann. “Honduras, El Salvador, and Jamaica have higher rates. So do 24 other countries. The U.S., despite being number one in gun ownership is number 28 in gun homicide with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people.”

But here’s where it really gets interesting.

“The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU,” Swann said. “The UK has the fifth highest robbery rate, the fourth highest burglary rate. But more importantly, the EU named Britain as the most violent country in the EU.”

Swann noted that in the UK, there are 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people. By contrast, there are 466 violent crimes per 100,000 here in America.

“We’re not even in the top ten,” Swann said.

This means that Britain’s violent crime rate is over five times that of the U.S.

Not surprisingly, Morgan chooses to ignore this statistic.



Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/01/10/fox-affiliate-thoroughly-debunks-piers-morgan-s-gun-homicide-statisti#ixzz2HgTTXgZB

great points.....there are higher rates of murder  in violent 3rd world countries.....28 on the list of gun related murders...any other first world nations higher than the USA..?
actually Urleft you did say that you would check out the links i put...it does have a comparison of Murder by gun rates per 100,000 of the USA, AUSTRALIA and GB.....im sure you will be pleased...the US wins by miles.
yes GB does have a lot of violent crime....soccer hooligans....thank god they don't have guns hey...or it would be the murder rate and not the violent crime rate that would be up.
anyway mate im sure no one is changing anybodies mind, and i enjoy a debate      love it

[Prakhonchai Nick]

It's not just the soccer hooligans in the UK. There are large numbers of  immigrant youths battling each other, who should be immediately deported at the first sign of trouble ------just as we farang here in Thailand would be!

[Speros]

It's not just the soccer hooligans in the UK. There are large bumbers of  immigrant youths battling each other, who should be immediately deported at the first sign of trouble ------just as we farang here in Thailand would be!

no offence intended Nick, same issue in Australia....and with indigenous communities....just a statement about if guns were freely available in GB...it wouldn't be violent crime anymore...it could well be homicide.

[urleft]

great points.....there are higher rates of murder  in violent 3rd world countries.....28 on the list of gun related murders...any other first world nations higher than the USA..?
actually Urleft you did say that you would check out the links i put...it does have a comparison of Murder by gun rates per 100,000 of the USA, AUSTRALIA and GB.....im sure you will be pleased...the US wins by miles.
yes GB does have a lot of violent crime....soccer hooligans....thank god they don't have guns hey...or it would be the murder rate and not the violent crime rate that would be up.
anyway mate im sure no one is changing anybodies mind, and i enjoy a debate      love it

Yes I reviewed them.  What exactly does the PDF on Automatic weapons have to do with homicide rates?  When was the last time a legal US registered machine gun was used in a homicide? 

[Speros]

great points.....there are higher rates of murder  in violent 3rd world countries.....28 on the list of gun related murders...any other first world nations higher than the USA..?
actually Urleft you did say that you would check out the links i put...it does have a comparison of Murder by gun rates per 100,000 of the USA, AUSTRALIA and GB.....im sure you will be pleased...the US wins by miles.
yes GB does have a lot of violent crime....soccer hooligans....thank god they don't have guns hey...or it would be the murder rate and not the violent crime rate that would be up.
anyway mate im sure no one is changing anybodies mind, and i enjoy a debate      love it

Yes I reviewed them.  What exactly does the PDF on Automatic weapons have to do with homicide rates?  When was the last time a legal US registered machine gun was used in a homicide?

there should be three PDF...one on automatic...the other on ownership...the next on murder by gun rates,....i apologize im not up with any technology...if i have posted only one...i will try to get the others up.

[Speros]

great points.....there are higher rates of murder  in violent 3rd world countries.....28 on the list of gun related murders...any other first world nations higher than the USA..?
actually Urleft you did say that you would check out the links i put...it does have a comparison of Murder by gun rates per 100,000 of the USA, AUSTRALIA and GB.....im sure you will be pleased...the US wins by miles.
yes GB does have a lot of violent crime....soccer hooligans....thank god they don't have guns hey...or it would be the murder rate and not the violent crime rate that would be up.
anyway mate im sure no one is changing anybodies mind, and i enjoy a debate      love it

Yes I reviewed them.  What exactly does the PDF on Automatic weapons have to do with homicide rates?  When was the last time a legal US registered machine gun was used in a homicide?

mate only one of the 3 PDF's have to do with automatic weapons(legal ownership).....one is a gun related death rate comparison with Australia, GB, and the USA...with the USA at 2.98 per 100,000....Aust at .1 and GB at .03...per 100,000. 

[urleft]

great points.....there are higher rates of murder  in violent 3rd world countries.....28 on the list of gun related murders...any other first world nations higher than the USA..?
actually Urleft you did say that you would check out the links i put...it does have a comparison of Murder by gun rates per 100,000 of the USA, AUSTRALIA and GB.....im sure you will be pleased...the US wins by miles.
yes GB does have a lot of violent crime....soccer hooligans....thank god they don't have guns hey...or it would be the murder rate and not the violent crime rate that would be up.
anyway mate im sure no one is changing anybodies mind, and i enjoy a debate    love it

Yes I reviewed them.  What exactly does the PDF on Automatic weapons have to do with homicide rates?  When was the last time a legal US registered machine gun was used in a homicide?

mate only one of the 3 PDF's have to do with automatic weapons(legal ownership).....one is a gun related death rate comparison with Australia, GB, and the USA...with the USA at 2.98 per 100,000....Aust at .1 and GB at .03...per 100,000. 

Yes, I know, I looked at all 3.  But I trying to take it point by point. 

You are doing the typical liberal attack method of posting information that is misleading, expecially to those that don't understand that the American "Assualt Gun Ban" has nothing to do with machine guns.  You tried to divert me when I wanted your definition of "Assault Weapons" and had to finally back down on what you had said.  Here, you post 3 PDFs, one has to do about legal automatic weapon ownership in America, implying that Americans are using legal automatic weapons to commit crimes while Australia have a complete ban has none.  So I want you to provide what specific crimes have been done using any legal machine guns in America? 

So answer the question, I will get to the others later.

[Speros]

great points.....there are higher rates of murder  in violent 3rd world countries.....28 on the list of gun related murders...any other first world nations higher than the USA..?
actually Urleft you did say that you would check out the links i put...it does have a comparison of Murder by gun rates per 100,000 of the USA, AUSTRALIA and GB.....im sure you will be pleased...the US wins by miles.
yes GB does have a lot of violent crime....soccer hooligans....thank god they don't have guns hey...or it would be the murder rate and not the violent crime rate that would be up.
anyway mate im sure no one is changing anybodies mind, and i enjoy a debate    love it

Yes I reviewed them.  What exactly does the PDF on Automatic weapons have to do with homicide rates?  When was the last time a legal US registered machine gun was used in a homicide?

mate only one of the 3 PDF's have to do with automatic weapons(legal ownership).....one is a gun related death rate comparison with Australia, GB, and the USA...with the USA at 2.98 per 100,000....Aust at .1 and GB at .03...per 100,000. 

Yes, I know, I looked at all 3.  But I trying to take it point by point. 

You are doing the typical liberal attack method of posting information that is misleading, expecially to those that don't understand that the American "Assualt Gun Ban" has nothing to do with machine guns.  You tried to divert me when I wanted your definition of "Assault Weapons" and had to finally back down on what you had said.  Here, you post 3 PDFs, one has to do about legal automatic weapon ownership in America, implying that Americans are using legal automatic weapons to commit crimes while Australia have a complete ban has none.  So I want you to provide what specific crimes have been done using any legal machine guns in America? 

So answer the question, I will get to the others later.

mate, the automatic PDF was in reference to you stating " These are already illegal and have been for over 50 years.
 
And by this definition, an assault rifle has not been used in any of the mass killings. "...which i gather you meant automatic weapons have been made illegal for 50 years..this was not the case...they have to be registered.
secondly..i have stated that i was wrong about the "definition" of assault weapons...but the use of assault TYPE weapons such as AR15, bushmaster .233 in these massacres cannot be overlooked...and the "stock piling of them " which you have admitted.

Australia have banned semi automatic rifles...not just automatic rifles

by the way i am considered quite conservative in Australia in fact probably right wing, just because i do believe in gun control does not make me liberal or liberal minded.......i believe the average human in most countries are not clever enough to drive or even vote with a modem of common sense...why the hell would i want them armed.

as i have stated many times it is up to the people of the USA...it is their right to ignore history, common sense and statistics...and maybe they are too far down the track to change.

[urleft]

mate, the automatic PDF was in reference to you stating " These are already illegal and have been for over 50 years.
 

OK, so that PDF only has to do with my statement automatic weapons being illegal.  What happened here was in a previous posting that was deleted by Admin (in banning a guy) I had stated "Automatic Weapons are already illegal (except by special license)."   I did not care to get into the >0.1% of registered automatic weapons in the US since I had already mentioned it.  My bad for expecting my earlier post to be there. 

However, can we basically agree now that Fully Automatic Weapons (machine guns) are not involved in gun crime in America?  I would also recommend avoiding the us "Assault Gun or Weapon" unless it is part of a reference.   



Therefore, the only PDFs I need to be concerned are the 2nd two, is that correct? 

[Speros]

mate, the automatic PDF was in reference to you stating " These are already illegal and have been for over 50 years.
 

OK, so that PDF only has to do with my statement automatic weapons being illegal.  What happened here was in a previous posting that was deleted by Admin (in banning a guy) I had stated "Automatic Weapons are already illegal (except by special license)."   I did not care to get into the >0.1% of registered automatic weapons in the US since I had already mentioned it.  My bad for expecting my earlier post to be there. 

However, can we basically agree now that Fully Automatic Weapons (machine guns) are not involved in gun crime in America?  I would also recommend avoiding the us "Assault Gun or Weapon" unless it is part of a reference.   



Therefore, the only PDFs I need to be concerned are the 2nd two, is that correct?

yes mate....although under my definition an assault rifle can be a semi auto rifle ...i will bow to correct terminology which was the first question asked of me. its all good...you guys love your weapons, i've known for years that smoking kills, damages health and i kept doing it at a rate of 40-60 smokes a day...i gave up 12 days ago...working in Borats country...believe me im thinking about registering an AK-47....lol   

[Albert]

    Lightning Storm water pistol
    Soak your opponents that are even about 25 feet away
    Comes with blaster
    Fully automatic for maximum speed
    For ages 6 and up
    4 AA batteries required but not included
    Instruction manual included
   This will sort the men out from the boys.

[nookiebear]

I heard Urleft is the 'sole' distributor in Isaan!

[smoooth2]

I have watched this debate with some interest for the past month. Perhaps we could all acknowledge that it is lawful in USA to carry weapons, so the views expressed here are opinions from individuals that will never be resolved. I guess that's what a forum is all about.

As an Aussie, I remember the furore in 1996 when the Govt announced the "Gun Buy Back Scheme." Cost the Aussie taxpayer around $400,000,000

It has been deemed as only a partial success at best, as many gun owners simply chose to ignore the scheme. There is a short link worth reading.    http://guncontrol.org.au/1998/07/gun-buy-back/

Non Aussies will perhaps not know this, but the scheme was a very rapid response to a deadful mass shooting in Tasmania in 1996. 35 people killed, 21 wounded. The single offender used a Colt AR-15 semi auto rifle.

The next generation of Australians have grown up knowing that private weapons are not available, so it's not really a big deal in Australia. IMHO. There are avenues available for recreational shooters to legally own weapons, but it's very strictly controlled as you may imagine.

Perhaps USA could have a Referendum on the issue ? Seems a very democratic way to sort a hugely devisive topic.

I have no opinion on the rights of Americans to carry weapons. It's their Constitutional right, and I respect that. However, as an Aussie that simply can't own a gun .... then that is no big deal for me. Didn't change my life at all.

[urleft]

yes mate....although under my definition an assault rifle can be a semi auto rifle ...i will bow to correct terminology which was the first question asked of me. its all good...you guys love your weapons, i've known for years that smoking kills, damages health and i kept doing it at a rate of 40-60 smokes a day...i gave up 12 days ago...working in Borats country...believe me im thinking about registering an AK-47....lol   

Super, it is nice to find common ground.  If we every meet I will buy you a cold one. 

That being said I must ask for your indulgence as I am currently involved in the most important project of my life and my down times seems to be fleeting the last few weeks.   

But I will get to your other 2 PDFs, hopefully in next 2 weeks. 


Cheers Mate.