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Author Topic: Who will be the next US President  (Read 62323 times)

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Offline urleft

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #105 on: October 31, 2012, 10:25:15 AM »
You avoided the question, what specific laws are being broken that you would put away these soldiers for life without the possibility of parole? 

Normal people do not inprison people for life unless specific crimes are committed like murder, and while very stupid what these soldiers are doing, what is the specific crime? 
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 01:23:34 PM by Admin »

Offline CO-CO

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #106 on: October 31, 2012, 10:37:47 AM »
You avoided the question, what specific laws are being broken that you would put away these soldiers for life without the possibility of parole? 

Normal people do not inprison people for life unless specific crimes are committed like murder, and while very stupid what these soldiers are doing, what is the specific crime?
[/quote]


UR - you make a very good point.

I would like to see "very stupid" uprated to "internationally unacceptable" then I could add my 100% support to your statement.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 01:24:10 PM by Admin »

Offline urleft

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #107 on: October 31, 2012, 11:36:18 AM »
UR - you make a very good point.

I would like to see "very stupid" uprated to "internationally unacceptable" then I could add my 100% support to your statement.

Hard for me to say that as who am I to speak for the international community representing all the countries and cultures? 


However, in some instances I can speak for the US Military.  And I do know that several of these military members received punishment under the UCMJ (Unified Code of Military Justice).  The US military tries very hard to police its own, but when you have over 2 million military deployed in a high stress environments  a lot of time without direct oversight of senior enlisted or officers, some are going to do stupid, unacceptable, dangerous, illegal, and deadly things.  This behavior is not condoned by the leadership or idicative of the vast majority of the US military.  Overall I have found the military to represent some of the best parts of American society because you litterally trust your team mates with your life. And for every account of an American Military Member doing something unacceptable, there are thousands of them doing the right thing. 
 
 
How about we settle on just "unacceptable"?
 
 
 
 

Offline Ahab

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #108 on: October 31, 2012, 11:51:15 AM »

If i had my way i would put them animals in prison with a life sentence without the possibility of parole.

BTW, exactly what law would you put them away for "in prison with a life sentence without the possibility of parole"? 


Do you want to put them in prison because they heinously broke a law, or because your itsy bitsy feelings are hurt?
This is one of the reasons why.
Any normal person would think the same.
But i said normal so that will exclude most Americans.
Tell me are you really proud of this.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085378/US-troops-urinating-dead-Afghan-bodies-video-used-Taliban-recruitment-tool.html


You avoided the question, what specific laws are being broken that you would put away these soldiers for life without the possibility of parole? 

Normal people do not inprison people for life unless specific crimes are committed like murder, and while very stupid what these soldiers are doing, what is the specific crime?
They are all guilty of the biggest crime in the world today inhumanity.
To treat children in such a undignified manner is a crime against humanity itself.
To laugh and mock a child because of his/her disabilities or his/her disfigurements is a crime against humanity .
To kill a defenseless puppy and stand and laugh with your friend is insanity and i strongly believe the men in those videos were insane,and there is no place in the world for those type of people.
They need to be locked away from the general public for the rest of their life's,because there is no coming back from that level of insanity.
If you or anyone else agree that those soldiers only acted "very stupidly"and not with inhumanity and insanity then i pity the world we all live in today now and in the future.
Italiantony, if you think that was the worst crime that is possible then you are very naive. There are a lot worse things going on around the world every single day. Perhaps you choose to ignore them because you are convinced that the US is the worst evil possible.

The world is full of a lot of really bad actors. War should always be the last option. Horrible things happen in war, but war is not the worst thing that can happen. Ask the Jewish and Slavic citizens under Germany during WWII if war is the worse thing that can ever happen?

Offline CO-CO

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #109 on: October 31, 2012, 11:54:39 AM »
UR - you make a very good point.

I would like to see "very stupid" uprated to "internationally unacceptable" then I could add my 100% support to your statement.

Hard for me to say that as who am I to speak for the international community representing all the countries and cultures? 


However, in some instances I can speak for the US Military.  And I do know that several of these military members received punishment under the UCMJ (Unified Code of Military Justice).  The US military tries very hard to police its own, but when you have over 2 million military deployed in a high stress environments  a lot of time without direct oversight of senior enlisted or officers, some are going to do stupid, unacceptable, dangerous, illegal, and deadly things.  This behavior is not condoned by the leadership or idicative of the vast majority of the US military.  Overall I have found the military to represent some of the best parts of American society because you litterally trust your team mates with your life. And for every account of an American Military Member doing something unacceptable, there are thousands of them doing the right thing. 
 
 
How about we settle on just "unacceptable"?

Thanks.  That is close enough, you understood my point.

Offline urleft

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #110 on: October 31, 2012, 09:15:54 PM »
Looks like Italiantony's post got lost, glad you captured it Ahab, as the saying goes "Give a man enough rope and he will hang himself" 


You avoided the question, what specific laws are being broken that you would put away these soldiers for life without the possibility of parole? 

Normal people do not inprison people for life unless specific crimes are committed like murder, and while very stupid what these soldiers are doing, what is the specific crime?
 


Per Italiantony:


They are all guilty of the biggest crime in the world today inhumanity.
To treat children in such a undignified manner is a crime against humanity itself.
To laugh and mock a child because of his/her disabilities or his/her disfigurements is a crime against humanity .
To kill a defenseless puppy and stand and laugh with your friend is insanity and i strongly believe the men in those videos were insane,and there is no place in the world for those type of people.
They need to be locked away from the general public for the rest of their life's,because there is no coming back from that level of insanity.
If you or anyone else agree that those soldiers only acted "very stupidly"and not with inhumanity and insanity then i pity the world we all live in today now and in the future.


Based on his standards then these events should easily be called inhumanity crimes:


Halabja poison gas attack  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack


The Taliban and their allies committed massacres against Afghan civilians,[25][26][27] denied UN food supplies to 160,000 starving civilians[28] and conducted a policy of scorched earth burning vast areas of fertile land and destroying tens of thousands of homes during their rule from 1996-2001.[29][30] Hundreds of thousands of people were forced to flee to United Front-controlled territory, Pakistan and Iran.[30]  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban


and:

REMEMBER SADDAM HUSSEIN'S ATROCITIESMichNews.com, BloodHoundDaily.com, ConservativeTruth.com | J. Grant Swank, Jr.

Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 1:51:23 PM by grantswank

REMEMBER SADDAM HUSSEIN’S ATROCITIES

J. Grant Swank, Jr., POB 1984, Windham ME 04062

Pastor, New Hope Church, Windham ME

Lest we grow numb to Saddam Hussein’s atrocities, let us keep in the forefront of our ethics what devilment this “evil” fiend has been up to. Such is the crucial component regarding what a free, morally sensitive global citizenry must do in response to Hussein’s ongoing dark presence in our world.

He is a hatchet man of the first order:

- Sheikh Taleb Al Souhail, outstanding Iraqi leader and chief of the Bani Tamim tribe, was murdered by Hussein’s intelligence service, the Mukhabarat.

- The Faylee Kurds, mainly men ages 16 - 28, were tortured in Hussein’s detention camps while their families were sent away to Iran.

- Hetau Ibrahim Ahmad, prominent Kurdish spokesperson, tells of her having to flee her entire lifetime, in fact becoming a daily refugee. She sets forth detail of killings, oppression and displacement of Kurds by Hussein terrorists.

- Dr. Katrine Michael, 1988 victim of chemical weaponry, had to flee to Turkey because of the ongoing chemical bombardment of Kurds by Hussein.

- Nidhal Mhuk Shalal Aljuburi, Sabria Mahdi Naama and Peyman Halmat relate women’s public beheadings (while family members were forced to watch), women being dragged through village streets, rapes by Hussein’s security forces, kidnapping and mass killings, and displacements.

- Nidhal Muhi Shalal Aljuburi told of the practical extinction of her Jibour tribe, such including relatives, by Hussein. She related Hussein’s purposeful polluting of southern Iraq marsh areas, such yielding the dying out of animal life. (1)

Further crimes by Hussein include:

- Draining of the southern part of Iraq during the 1990s, such “cleansing” thousands of Iraqi Shiites.

- More ethnic obliteration of the non-Arab population of Kirkuk, blatantly murdering thousands of Hussein’s political opponents.

- Overseeing the murdering of more than 1000 Kuwaitis after his invasion of Kuwait, as well as holding foreign diplomats as hostages, stealing from Kuwaiti citizenry, raining down missiles upon Israeli civilians and seeing through war crimes against American militia.

- Amassing weapons of mass destruction and instigating global terrorism.

- Committing enough crimes so as to fill millions of pages of documentation on the part of the Clinton administration’s investigative teams who culled data for bringing Hussein and his henchmen to international justice.

“Yet no Iraqi official (at least 10 are of extreme interest) has ever been indicted for some of the worst crimes of the 20th century. My efforts to obtain UN Security Council approval for an ad hoc international criminal tribunal encountered one obstacle after another in foreign capitals, in New York and even within the Clinton administration. The usual excuse was that a tribunal would jeopardize either the United Nations' inspections regime or its sanctions regime. We needed Hussein's cooperation, which a criminal indictment might discourage,” Mr. Sheffer states. (2)

Additional crimes include:

- Daily executions, secretly carried out, at the whim of Hussein. "In Iraq, not a day passes without us hearing that someone from a family we know has been executed," one refugee is quoted as saying.

"For example, my neighbor's son was shot outside her house and no one could save him. When he died, the special security forces came and asked her to pay 50,000 Iraqi dinars per bullet to be able to recover the body. She sold everything she had and paid to be able to bury him, on her own, with two police cars accompanying her, and the police buried him. Three days later they came to demolish her house and she was left on the street with her three daughters. I saw that with my own eyes," the refugee added.

- Brainwashing of children, beginning at age five. They are enrolled in “Ashbal Saddam” (“Saddam’s Cubs”) where they must undergo military training, the latter including cruelty to animals. "From the age of nine, children are put through ‘proper’ military training. A firearm is a physical part of the child's body," a mother was quoted as saying.

- Children are at times arrested, put in prison because a parent opposes Hussein, or merely because a soldier decides it is necessary. One mother told that her children, ages eleven and thirteen, were put behind bars for six months—all because her husband, prior to his being executed, refused to preach in favor of the Hussein war against Iran. Finally, to see her offspring set free, she had to pay the government.

- Another witness states: "In 1999, while I was under arrest in Abu Ghreb, I saw a group of women brought into prison with children of between three and five. It became standard practice to arrest women and children to put pressure on husbands, brothers, and father. They were kept from one to three months and released only if they confessed," the witness said.

"We children were between four and twelve in 1981 when we were taken to prison with my mother and my aunt. I can remember the hunger that I felt. When we ran to embrace my mother, who had instruments on either side of her head and was screaming, we felt pain because she was full of electric current," another witness quoted in the report said.

- One million of internally displaced persons in Iraq is due to “forced population removal, known as Arabization.” Under this program, farmland is confiscated, citizens are harassed, imprisoned, tortured, and not permitted to inherit or purchase business or real estate. "The terror in Iraq is ubiquitous," the report says. "Every Iraqi, man, woman and child is a potential enemy -- of the party, of the regime, of the leader Saddam Hussein -- and must be dealt with accordingly." (3) __________________________________________________________________

(1) These testimonials were forthcoming at the National Press Club to an overflow crowd when distinguished Iraq-Americans spoke concerning their personal experiences of the Hussein regime. Moderator was Safia Taleb Al Souhail, Advocacy Director for Middle East and Islamic World at International Alliance for Justice. Joining her was the Honorable Zakia Ismail Hakki, first female judge in Iran and founding member of the Iraqi-American Council, as well as Hetau Ibrahim Ahmad, noted Kurdish activist, and Dr. Katrine Michael, an Iraqi Chaldean and Christian who became a part of the Kurdish resistance movement.

(2) “Try Him For His Crimes,” David J. Scheffer, The Washington Post September 12, 2002.

(3) International Federation of Human Rights Leagues and the Coalition for Justice In Iraq / NGO Reports Human Rights Abuses by Saddam Hussein.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/823242/posts



So based on Italiantony's standard's of what to do about inhumanity crimes  the USA is fully justified in the War on Terror operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. 
 



Thanks for your support Tony!!!!    bananadance   


Offline Jamaw

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #111 on: November 01, 2012, 09:01:59 AM »
War is not nice and what happens during a war or conflict is best kept there. We are living in an age when soldiers are trying to do a very difficult task and having media examining every aspect of their roles.

When dealing with terrorists, they get what they deserve. I personally have no problems with those US soldiers pissing on those prisoners, they do a lot worse if they capture one of us.

I do not condone the contents of that video, that damaged the reputation of the US forces and those men should have done time inside as many good US servicemen would have been tainted by the same brush because of the actions of a few.

When the Romans settled, or tried to settle in Scotland they were infuriated that the Scots didn't fight like an Army. The centurians couldn't find any men but many had their throats cut over-night. It wasn't conventional warfare but out-numbered by a sophisticated Army, the Scots won; they adopted similar tactics against a more powerful English Army. History is littered with many examples including the American war of independence when the British marched like robots onto forests and the locals (not soldiers) just hid in camouflage and picked them out- oh how the British complained.

Even in Northern Ireland, it took us a while to fight fire with fire then the terrorists complained to the press we were doing bad things to them. Yes a newspaper article stated we had beaten and tortured them yet 5 days previously they bombed a Manchester Mall killing women and children.

Certain things happened in Oman when the present day Sultan Qaboos was trying to over-throw his tyrant father in the early '70's. He did so with the help of British Special Forces. The biggest problem was the insurgents from the south- Salalah and Yemen. They captured one insurgent, slit his tendons and left him in the desert to be eaten alive by desert foxes. After that there were no more raids; the mentality that if eaten by an animal the spirit doesn't go to heaven worked. It may seen a bad thing to do but it was done on the advice of other Arabs.

I can go on but I won't as I still work as a safety & security consultant and travel a lot so it wouldn't be wise.

Some here will never understand what it's like to be under fire and fight back with hands tied because of ignorant people. Politicians will send us to war at the drop of a hat but fail to defend then when needed. It is best that you don't know what goes on and that our troops get the support they deserve.

We should never have gone into Iraq or Afghanistan but we should have gone ion to Zimbabwe to help those people but they don't have oil. We should go into Tibet and help the oppressed people but that would piss off the Chinese and that's not wise. Picking on the little guy is easy and that should stop as many good men get killed and sadly so do innocent civilians.


It started about US Presidents and has widely digressed. Probably best to get back there.

Offline Ahab

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #112 on: November 01, 2012, 09:10:18 AM »
War is not nice and what happens during a war or conflict is best kept there. We are living in an age when soldiers are trying to do a very difficult task and having media examining every aspect of their roles.

When dealing with terrorists, they get what they deserve. I personally have no problems with those US soldiers pissing on those prisoners, they do a lot worse if they capture one of us.

I do not condone the contents of that video, that damaged the reputation of the US forces and those men should have done time inside as many good US servicemen would have been tainted by the same brush because of the actions of a few.

When the Romans settled, or tried to settle in Scotland they were infuriated that the Scots didn't fight like an Army. The centurians couldn't find any men but many had their throats cut over-night. It wasn't conventional warfare but out-numbered by a sophisticated Army, the Scots won; they adopted similar tactics against a more powerful English Army. History is littered with many examples including the American war of independence when the British marched like robots onto forests and the locals (not soldiers) just hid in camouflage and picked them out- oh how the British complained.

Even in Northern Ireland, it took us a while to fight fire with fire then the terrorists complained to the press we were doing bad things to them. Yes a newspaper article stated we had beaten and tortured them yet 5 days previously they bombed a Manchester Mall killing women and children.

Certain things happened in Oman when the present day Sultan Qaboos was trying to over-throw his tyrant father in the early '70's. He did so with the help of British Special Forces. The biggest problem was the insurgents from the south- Salalah and Yemen. They captured one insurgent, slit his tendons and left him in the desert to be eaten alive by desert foxes. After that there were no more raids; the mentality that if eaten by an animal the spirit doesn't go to heaven worked. It may seen a bad thing to do but it was done on the advice of other Arabs.

I can go on but I won't as I still work as a safety & security consultant and travel a lot so it wouldn't be wise.

Some here will never understand what it's like to be under fire and fight back with hands tied because of ignorant people. Politicians will send us to war at the drop of a hat but fail to defend then when needed. It is best that you don't know what goes on and that our troops get the support they deserve.

We should never have gone into Iraq or Afghanistan but we should have gone ion to Zimbabwe to help those people but they don't have oil. We should go into Tibet and help the oppressed people but that would piss off the Chinese and that's not wise. Picking on the little guy is easy and that should stop as many good men get killed and sadly so do innocent civilians.


It started about US Presidents and has widely digressed. Probably best to get back there.
Great post and I do not disagree with anything that you said, except there was a reason to go there after 911, but we should have left that country a long time ago.

Offline urleft

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #113 on: November 01, 2012, 10:44:37 AM »
War is not nice and what happens during a war or conflict is best kept there. We are living in an age when soldiers are trying to do a very difficult task and having media examining every aspect of their roles.

When dealing with terrorists, they get what they deserve. I personally have no problems with those US soldiers pissing on those prisoners, they do a lot worse if they capture one of us.

I do not condone the contents of that video, that damaged the reputation of the US forces and those men should have done time inside as many good US servicemen would have been tainted by the same brush because of the actions of a few.

When the Romans settled, or tried to settle in Scotland they were infuriated that the Scots didn't fight like an Army. The centurians couldn't find any men but many had their throats cut over-night. It wasn't conventional warfare but out-numbered by a sophisticated Army, the Scots won; they adopted similar tactics against a more powerful English Army. History is littered with many examples including the American war of independence when the British marched like robots onto forests and the locals (not soldiers) just hid in camouflage and picked them out- oh how the British complained.

Even in Northern Ireland, it took us a while to fight fire with fire then the terrorists complained to the press we were doing bad things to them. Yes a newspaper article stated we had beaten and tortured them yet 5 days previously they bombed a Manchester Mall killing women and children.

Certain things happened in Oman when the present day Sultan Qaboos was trying to over-throw his tyrant father in the early '70's. He did so with the help of British Special Forces. The biggest problem was the insurgents from the south- Salalah and Yemen. They captured one insurgent, slit his tendons and left him in the desert to be eaten alive by desert foxes. After that there were no more raids; the mentality that if eaten by an animal the spirit doesn't go to heaven worked. It may seen a bad thing to do but it was done on the advice of other Arabs.

I can go on but I won't as I still work as a safety & security consultant and travel a lot so it wouldn't be wise.

Some here will never understand what it's like to be under fire and fight back with hands tied because of ignorant people. Politicians will send us to war at the drop of a hat but fail to defend then when needed. It is best that you don't know what goes on and that our troops get the support they deserve.

We should never have gone into Iraq or Afghanistan but we should have gone ion to Zimbabwe to help those people but they don't have oil. We should go into Tibet and help the oppressed people but that would piss off the Chinese and that's not wise. Picking on the little guy is easy and that should stop as many good men get killed and sadly so do innocent civilians.


It started about US Presidents and has widely digressed. Probably best to get back there.
Great post and I do not disagree with anything that you said, except there was a reason to go there after 911, but we should have left that country a long time ago.

I also agree it was a good post. 

I would add a few points: 

1.  HOW TO STOP ISLAMIC TERRORISTS...... it worked once in our History...

Once in U.S. history an episode of Islamic terrorism was very quickly stopped. It happened in the Philippines about 1911, when Gen. John J. Pershing was in command of the garrison. There had been numerous Islamic terrorist attacks, so "Black Jack" told his boys to catch the perps and teach them a lesson.

Forced to dig their own graves, the terrorists were all tied to posts, execution style. The U.S. soldiers then brought in pigs and slaughtered them, rubbing their bullets in the blood and fat. Thus, the terrorists were terrorized; they saw that they would be contaminated with hogs' blood. This would mean that they could not enter Heaven, even if they died as terrorist martyrs.

All but one was shot, their bodies dumped into the grave, and the hog guts dumped atop the bodies. The lone survivor was allowed to escape back to the terrorist camp and tell his brethren what happened to the others. This brought a stop to terrorism in the Philippines for the next 50 years.

Pointing a gun into the face of Islamic terrorists won't make them flinch.

They welcome the chance to die for Allah. Like Gen. Pershing, we must show them that they won't get to Muslim heaven (which they believe has an endless supply of virgins) but instead will die with the hated pigs of the devil.
 
2.  I don't believe fighting in Afghanistan can be stopped short of complete genicide, it seems inherent in their culture.  I would go in take out the top warlords, and let them continue to fight among themselves.  Every once in a while do some precision strikes to ensure a dictator does not emerge. 

3.  I would have several permanent bases in Iraq keeping about a US Division worth of troops, a long with port access and some good landing fields.  And have prepositioned equipment ready to go, just add troops.  Otherwise the country runs itself.  The US had this in Europe for years and it worked well. 

Not very politically correct but as I said earlier, the US should fight wars to win or not fight them.  (Afghanistan is a special case)



Offline Jamaw

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #114 on: November 01, 2012, 10:49:17 AM »
Urleft- agreed pointing a gun, bombing etc doesn't work with an ingrained mindset; in war we don't necessarily apply to our strength but target the enemies weaknesses. In Oman the dead insurgents were buried with Pig carcasses - that also worked. It was unknown to us until the Omani soldiers suggested it and it worked.

Offline Jamaw

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #115 on: November 01, 2012, 08:43:19 PM »
Only a complete, certified nutter would vote for this man. If I was American I would be deeply concerned by this....

http://bit.ly/Y6zIuQ

Offline urleft

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #116 on: November 01, 2012, 08:57:13 PM »
and this guy is trustworthy?




Offline Jamaw

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #117 on: November 01, 2012, 09:05:02 PM »
Just to even the score, here's another nutter....

http://tinyurl.com/bu7bue6

Offline nookiebear

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #118 on: November 02, 2012, 07:15:09 AM »
Thank fcuk its only 4 days away.............I regret ever having started this thread

Offline Starman

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Re: Who will be the next US President
« Reply #119 on: November 02, 2012, 09:47:38 AM »
I think I'll start a "What do you think about the election result?" thread next week.

 

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