Buriram Expats
Buriram Province - General Category => Isaan Thai Visa => Topic started by: Thai Bart on July 03, 2016, 09:09:21 AM
-
I see there is an old post on this started by fishsauce, regarding obtaining a visa through your Thai child. Starman has replied but I am confused as he states court papers, What papers are these starman as I don't have any, only the birth certificate. Also what is the amount of money needed in your account please.
Many thanks for any additional info/advice.
TB
-
First....are you legally married to the child's mother?
If you are not then, under Thai law, you are not a legal guardian of the child. This is not only for foreigners but also Thai fathers.
In order to become a legal guardian you must apply to the courts for a legal document stating such.
-
Starman, what is this about? Just wondering for me in the future.....
-
We are looking at legal custody (not adoption) so that our brat can get a year of schooling in the UK at some point. I was told that at over a certain age you are very unlikely to be allowed to adopt, and that if immigration suspects that this is happening because you want an 'O' visa then they may make difficulties also. We asked at the Amphur in Buriram, that's what they told us. Go there first with a Thai speaker.
-
A person could be named on the birth certificate as the father, but his rights are NOT legalized under Thai law. Even with a DNA test, he could be the father on the birth certificate and be the biological father, but he won't be the LEGALIZED FATHER.
There are 3 exceptions mentioned in article 1547:
1. If there is a subsequent marriage between the parents
2. If there is a registration made at the amphur
3. If there is a judgment by the Court.
Exception one is easily understood.
Exception Two is more complex: Both parents must consent that the Father is the legitimate Father and the local authorities (Amphur or Khet in Bangkok) will normally require the child to be old enough to understand and accept this situation.
In Thailand, each registration office is different and they often do not apply the same rules. However, they will normally legalize the Father ONLY when the child is over 7 years-old, able to sign his name, able to consent, and all parties will have to give their consent to the local registration office.
If the child is younger and there is an attempt to register the Father's rights at the amphur, the applicant is often told to get a judgment from the Court before it will be possible to legalize the rights of a Father. After a Court decision is rendered and, if it is positive, becomes enforceable (after 30 days), it is then possible to use the judgment to legally register the parent’s rights at the amphur.
Exception Three: Re a judgment by the Court, see the section below called "action to legitimate a child under a Thai Court".
Unmarried parents can make a simple agreement between them related to custody but the agreement won't be enforceable by Law. An example is the Supreme Court judgment 7473/2537. In that case, the plaintiff and the defendant cohabited as husband and wife but did not register their marriage. They had one child together, namely; Mr. Yor. According to Thai Law, the plaintiff is NOT the legitimate father of Mr.Yor and has no rights or obligations (duties) over the child. It is clear that the mother has FULL and SOLE parental powers. But the plaintiff and the defendant made a settlement agreement stating that Mr. Yor shall live alternatively 2 weeks with each party. The Supreme Court stated that this agreement cannot be effected pursuant sections 850 and following of Civil and Commercial Code. Therefore, the plaintiff cannot enforce the defendant to comply with such an agreement.
If the Father of a child who is not married to the Mother wants to accquire rights over a child by LAW, he must do it according to section 1547 of the Thai Commercial and Civil Code.
-
A person could be named on the birth certificate as the father, but his rights are NOT legalized under Thai law. Even with a DNA test, he could be the father on the birth certificate and be the biological father, but he won't be the LEGALIZED FATHER.
There are 3 exceptions mentioned in article 1547:
1. If there is a subsequent marriage between the parents
2. If there is a registration made at the amphur
3. If there is a judgment by the Court.
Exception one is easily understood.
Exception Two is more complex: Both parents must consent that the Father is the legitimate Father and the local authorities (Amphur or Khet in Bangkok) will normally require the child to be old enough to understand and accept this situation.
In Thailand, each registration office is different and they often do not apply the same rules. However, they will normally legalize the Father ONLY when the child is over 7 years-old, able to sign his name, able to consent, and all parties will have to give their consent to the local registration office.
If the child is younger and there is an attempt to register the Father's rights at the amphur, the applicant is often told to get a judgment from the Court before it will be possible to legalize the rights of a Father. After a Court decision is rendered and, if it is positive, becomes enforceable (after 30 days), it is then possible to use the judgment to legally register the parent’s rights at the amphur.
Exception Three: Re a judgment by the Court, see the section below called "action to legitimate a child under a Thai Court".
Unmarried parents can make a simple agreement between them related to custody but the agreement won't be enforceable by Law. An example is the Supreme Court judgment 7473/2537. In that case, the plaintiff and the defendant cohabited as husband and wife but did not register their marriage. They had one child together, namely; Mr. Yor. According to Thai Law, the plaintiff is NOT the legitimate father of Mr.Yor and has no rights or obligations (duties) over the child. It is clear that the mother has FULL and SOLE parental powers. But the plaintiff and the defendant made a settlement agreement stating that Mr. Yor shall live alternatively 2 weeks with each party. The Supreme Court stated that this agreement cannot be effected pursuant sections 850 and following of Civil and Commercial Code. Therefore, the plaintiff cannot enforce the defendant to comply with such an agreement.
If the Father of a child who is not married to the Mother wants to accquire rights over a child by LAW, he must do it according to section 1547 of the Thai Commercial and Civil Code.
All correct.
If you are the named father on the birth certificate then the next process is fairly straight forward.
You need to go to the office that is situated in the juvenile detention centre on the road from Buriram to Prakonchai.
Easy to find. Head out past the football stadium. Straight on at the next set of traffic lights. Go past the golf course. Just as the 4 lane is reducing to 2 lane you will see a building on the right. That is where you need to go. The interview process is quite straight forward. I have been interpreter for a couple.
You will need an intermediary there who can speak Thai and English, as when you get married. The details will be explained and you need someone to translate, if you cannot speak Thai, so that you understand. Your wife/girlfriend cannot translate for you.
In Buriram you can do this when the child is at any age.
-
Many thanks gentlemen very informative, I wrongly assumed because I was named on the birth certificate, that I had some legal obligations but obviously not. Very surprised that any unmarried father even Thai is considered to have no responsibility towards the child. Strange place this land of smiles, now I can see why the Thai men here find it so easy to be butterflies 555.
Kind regards all.
TB
-
Hi all, well this is the only post that I could find about dependent child visa so hope someone can help. Currently on a multi O (marriage visa) doing the 90 border runs and visa expires april next year, well as marriage is going no where and looks like finishing I intend to apply at immigration for extension based on dependent child (I have 2 10yr old twin girls) and wife is very happy for the twins to stay with me. Can anyone help me with doc's and requirements to do this and when should/can I apply for this? Can I do extension from my current multi O visa?I will be renting an house (under her name) and will get twins on house book when done. I will be applying via 40k mth and will get the required income letter from NZ embassy (do I have to get this letter verified by MFA Bangkok?) I read that only some IO's require this. thanks and I suppose that I will have many more questions as when the time gets closer. tc all
-
dutchdog3000
I believe unless you go thru family court and get 'parental rights' granted as the father, you're not gonna be able to get an extension of stay by just being listed on the birth certificate.
Now, because the kids are 10, you might (as in it's totally up to each individual amphur), be able to take the kids, the mother and yourself to the local Amphur and get listed in their log book as the recognized father (which grants the parental rights just like family court does). Then apply for the yearly extension of stay based on supporting them with the proof of financials from your embassy's stat dec letter.
Conversely, if you're still married to your wife when your year-long, multi-entry Non-O expires next year, you could just as easily go back to Savannakhet and pull another one for a year.. Even if you divorced during that year, it wouldn't affect the visa itself and it'd be good for the year's validity. Divorcing only affects an in-country extensions of stay based on marriage. It doesn't affect a year long multi-entry visas gotten outside the country based on marriage (as long as you were married when you got the visa).
Good luck..
-
Hi all, well this is the only post that I could find about dependent child visa so hope someone can help. Currently on a multi O (marriage visa) doing the 90 border runs and visa expires april next year, well as marriage is going no where and looks like finishing I intend to apply at immigration for extension based on dependent child (I have 2 10yr old twin girls) and wife is very happy for the twins to stay with me. Can anyone help me with doc's and requirements to do this and when should/can I apply for this? Can I do extension from my current multi O visa?I will be renting an house (under her name) and will get twins on house book when done. I will be applying via 40k mth and will get the required income letter from NZ embassy (do I have to get this letter verified by MFA Bangkok?) I read that only some IO's require this. thanks and I suppose that I will have many more questions as when the time gets closer. tc all
The first thing you need to do is to go and make your application to become the legal father of your children. You need to make an appointment. The office is located at the Juvenile Detention Centre. This is located on the Buriram to Prakhonchai road. As you are heading out of Buriram, at about the 10km mark, the 4 lane road will change back into 2 lanes. The building is the one on the right. You need to go to the offices on the right hand side of the complex. You will need your wife's full co operation.
Not sure about Buriram Immigration, but KapCheong immigration would not issue an extension of stay based on having a child if you are married. They ask you to go down the marriage route.
As and when you are able to get an extension based on having children you can indeed use your existing 0.
Why are you going to rent a house in your wife's name? This is likely to cause some difficulties. I would also advise that you find some other way of proving that you are living with your kids, rather than move them onto a house registration of a rented property. I would keep them registered where they are. This will also help with applications for schools and such like in the future. Remember that when you apply to become the legal father if your children this does not give you sole custody. The mother will still also be a legal guardian, the mother receives this legally at birth of the child. Any form filling in the future will also require the mother's signature.
This situation is a bit of a mine field. It may be best, as previously suggested, to keep the marriage going in order to enable you to get multi entry O visas. Check with Buriram Immigration also, about if they have the requirement that you cannot extend based on kids if you are married. If they do follow this rule then a divorce will be required. Probably something that, for now anyway, should be saved for another thread and another day.
-
todd and starman, thanks for your informative replies. As before I was sure that being married when the twins were born and with my name on birth cert I was the legal father. I also had conerns about still doing my multi O in Savanaket because 2 border site have now stopped people with same multi O visa doing runs over/back and are saying they must leave country by plane, this was reported in Thaivisa. As the country is heading downhill you never know what will happen next hence the need for me to fix up this mess. once again thanks for your help
-
And as me and kids are staying more and more at the rented house I have to fix up with TM28/TM30 forms, the other concern is if I do marriage extension with photos etc (which can be done) then immigration turn up and wife gone off again that might be a problem. I am going to do border run early Dec so lets hope this border does not do same as the other 2 borders.
-
The report about visa run problems was at Poipet. They are notorious for making problems.
-
dutchdog3000; It appears you are correct, by being married when your children were born you were legally recognized as their father, although as has been pointed out, unless you get granted sole custody in the divorce decree the mother's signature will be required on things you're doin' for the kids.
I trust the Thai Visa forum about as far as I can piss and I have an enlarged prostate.. Once you wade thru the endless misinformation and b/s you can on rare occasion get accurate information.
There were a few reports but AFAIK right now the border crossings with Lao or Cambodia are fine with people "border-bouncing" if they were hold valid multi-entry visas. In fact, just called two visa run companies here in Bangkok. One goes to Poipet and the other goes to Ban Laem, both said there are no problems in border-bouncing for valid multi-entry visa holders.
Kanchanaburi stopped everyone for a while but has since re-opened for people holding valid multi-entry visas and even the ones up Chiang Mai Chiang Rai way will now let people on valid multi-entry visas "border-bounce" to activate another entry.
There's no down side to listing the kids in another house book. All that does is state where they live, period. I wouldn't rent a place in your wife's name because should it go sideways you could find yourself out on the street. Just rent it in your own name, you can be listed in a yellow house-book even if you rent it and you kids could get listed in the blue house-book as thais living at that address too.
report back after your border-bounce and let us know how it went.
Good Luck.
-
Having your name on the birth certificate makes you the father of course. It does not, however, make you a legal father/guardian. Legal guardianship goes to the mother. I know this as I have been an on site interpreter for expats who have gained legal guardianship by going through the process I pointed out above.
It has nothing to do with you being foreign by the way. It is the same for Thai fathers.
-
Very interesting discussion.
Which leads to the "what if".
What if my TW dies? Will all the property then be assigned to the Child (Thai Citizen)?
What advice is recommended to ensure the Child is basically the sole heir? (I don't need to recoup what I put in as long as the Daughter gets it).
-
Very interesting discussion.
Which leads to the "what if".
What if my TW dies? Will all the property then be assigned to the Child (Thai Citizen)?
What advice is recommended to ensure the Child is basically the sole heir? (I don't need to recoup what I put in as long as the Daughter gets it).
A will.
-
Very interesting discussion.
Which leads to the "what if".
What if my TW dies? Will all the property then be assigned to the Child (Thai Citizen)?
What advice is recommended to ensure the Child is basically the sole heir? (I don't need to recoup what I put in as long as the Daughter gets it).
A will.
Thank you for that well thought out informative response. I have an US notarized will taking care of both the TW and daughter. It is nice to know based on your response that it also covers Thailand.
-
The thread is about Thailand. Your comment on a thread about Thailand, if on topic, would refer to items in Thailand.
It is not for me to determine if your US will covers your property in Thailand. That is your job. You asked a question and I gave you a 100 percent accurate answer.
Best you contact your lawyer if you are not sure.
-
The thread is about Thailand. Your comment on a thread about Thailand, if on topic, would refer to items in Thailand.
It is not for me to determine if your US will covers your property in Thailand. That is your job. You asked a question and I gave you a 100 percent accurate answer.
Best you contact your lawyer if you are not sure.
So what you are saying is that you don't know what you are taking about when you said a will was sufficient. Exactly what I have learned to expect from you.
-
Let me put it simply.
In order to appoint an heir to your estate you need a will.
What you have written into that will is totally up to you.
As previously advised, you need to speak to a lawyer if you don't know your arse from your elbow.
I have made all the arrangements for my family. I am sure it is not beyond your capabilities to do the same.
You are the only person that ever seems to question me on this forum. That say more about you than me.
Good luck with your will.
-
You are a twat, Urleft.
Let me put it simply.
In order to appoint an heir to your estate you need a will.
What you have written into that will is totally up to you.
As previously advised, you need to speak to a lawyer if you don't know your arse from your elbow.
I have made all the arrangements for my family. I am sure it is not beyond your capabilities to do the same.
You are the only person that ever seems to question me on this forum. That say more about you than me.
Good luck with your will.
I asked for specific advice and you give me BS. You provided no specific guidance for Thailand. Wow, talk to lawyer, you provided no recommendations, and nothing I should expect or look for.
When you don't have a clue you should shut up and not post.
-
I am sure it is not beyond your capabilities to do the same.
My Daughter is set up in the USA to live like a queen if something should happen to me. What I am concerned about which is why I stated:
What if my TW dies? Will all the property then be assigned to the Child (Thai Citizen)?
What do I need to protect her? Starman, you have failed to provide any more specifics than I have already addressed.
-
Very interesting discussion.
Which leads to the "what if".
What if my TW dies? Will all the property then be assigned to the Child (Thai Citizen)?
What advice is recommended to ensure the Child is basically the sole heir? (I don't need to recoup what I put in as long as the Daughter gets it).
Any relevant info to this post? Starman as usual failed to provide referenced links.
-
I don't know anything about US Wills,BUT UK Wills are not recognised here in Thailand,likewise Thai wills are not recognised in the UK.No doubt the US will be different .
-
My understanding from the advice previously given on this site is that you need a will in your home country for home based assets and you need a Thai will for Thai based assets.
-
Just as I said, Freddy. One needs a will.
Wonder if the forum idiot is going to shoot you down for not providing " referenced links"
:D :D :D :D :D
-
My understanding from the advice previously given on this site is that you need a will in your home country for home based assets and you need a Thai will for Thai based assets.
You're spot on Freddy.............I thought that is what I said
-
It may be my memory (again); but, wasn't there something about will writing recommendations discussed on this forum a month or two ago? I get the name confused, but a forum member who does a bang up job at writing wills for Thailand; seems like he is a Brit, but TiT.
-
Yes...Prakonchai Nick. I believe he can assist in all these matters.
-
It may be my memory (again); but, wasn't there something about will writing recommendations discussed on this forum a month or two ago? I get the name confused, but a forum member who does a bang up job at writing wills for Thailand; seems like he is a Brit, but TiT.
COCO & Nick.......Thai Widows & Expats....Both from UK too
-
Having your name on the birth certificate makes you the father of course. It does not, however, make you a legal father/guardian. Legal guardianship goes to the mother. I know this as I have been an on site interpreter for expats who have gained legal guardianship by going through the process I pointed out above.
Not that I'm questioning your "finite wisdom" :ohmy:, but I'm curious (and that's usually only fatal to cats :P).
I googled around (in thai) but couldn't find where it stated that the father of half-thai children conceived when the couple were married didn't get parental rights granted at birth.
Please note; I am NOT talking about children conceived out of wedlock where the father (no matter the nationality) hasta go thru family court to get those rights granted.
I did find where it said for children conceived during marriage the father is granted "shared custodial rights", meaning the mom hasta buy off on anything the father's doin' with the children.
Can you provide the thai version of the law regarding parental rights, specifically those granted when children are born while the couple is married?
Unfortunately, the fact you've been a translator in family court matters doesn't cut any ice with me :(. Sorry, but I'm hard to impress like that. :)
-
Funnily enought I don't give a f@#k what cuts the ice with you.
What was said by a represntatve of the family court is good enough for me.
You are starting to sound like another member on here who need a link to everything.
At the end of the day it is what the judge, immigration officer, police or who ever says. If they ask you must give. If you don't then you don't get what you want.
-
Starman
Could it be the two are 'related'??
-
I feel for the rest of the family if they are, Nookie.
-
[quote author=Starman link=topic=8871.msg61327#msg61327 date=1479697882
Funnily enought I don't give a f@#k what cuts the ice with you.
What was said by a represntatve of the family court is good enough for me.
You are starting to sound like another member on here who need a link to everything.
At the end of the day it is what the judge, immigration officer, police or who ever says. If they ask you must give. If you don't then you don't get what you want.
[/quote]
You sure have a lot of jobs!
& what's a represntstve? Is that another job? : )
-
[quote author=Starman link=topic=8871.msg61327#msg61327 date=1479697882
Funnily enought I don't give a f@#k what cuts the ice with you.
What was said by a represntatve of the family court is good enough for me.
You are starting to sound like another member on here who need a link to everything.
At the end of the day it is what the judge, immigration officer, police or who ever says. If they ask you must give. If you don't then you don't get what you want.
You sure have a lot of jobs!
& what's a represntstve? Is that another job? : )
[/quote]
Bang on cue the troll turns up.
Who said anything about jobs. Nothing wrong with helping people out.
-
Starman; I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers or get your knickers in a twist.
I was asking a valid question and obliquely pointing out that thai related forums on the inter-web are chock-a-block full of "experts" about this or that topic.
I googled around (in thai) and couldn't find anything in the laws about shared custody or parental rights which backed up what you'd stated. I just wanted to know if you had a link to it was all.
I have learned over time to take most foreigners spouting stuff as "gospel" concerning all things wacky and wonder here in the glorious "Land 'O Thaiz" with a grain of salt.
I have also found "at the end of the day" what some mid-level paper-pushin' thai gov't official in a too tight uniform says is NOT necessarily the correct answer. Pushing things further up the food chain can often yield a completely different answer. Of course the fact that I'm not impressed by the number of stripes or stars on their epaulets and not caring in the least if they like me or not tends to work in my favor too.
I think it's just my normal indifference towards foreigners and thaiz here coupled with my blunt, terse, cynical way of speaking both english and thai. In fact I have a t-shirt that says; "A**hole - now available in both english and thai". :laugh:
So Starman I apologize; no outright disrespect was intended or implied :). I am NOT a troll or related to another poser :o err poster on this or any thai forum or f/b group. I post under some permutation of my real name Tod Daniels everywhere.
-
dutchdog3000; It appears you are correct, by being married when your children were born you were legally recognized as their father, although as has been pointed out, unless you get granted sole custody in the divorce decree the mother's signature will be required on things you're doin' for the kids.
I trust the Thai Visa forum about as far as I can piss and I have an enlarged prostate.. Once you wade thru the endless misinformation and b/s you can on rare occasion get accurate information.
There were a few reports but AFAIK right now the border crossings with Lao or Cambodia are fine with people "border-bouncing" if they were hold valid multi-entry visas. In fact, just called two visa run companies here in Bangkok. One goes to Poipet and the other goes to Ban Laem, both said there are no problems in border-bouncing for valid multi-entry visa holders.
Kanchanaburi stopped everyone for a while but has since re-opened for people holding valid multi-entry visas and even the ones up Chiang Mai Chiang Rai way will now let people on valid multi-entry visas "border-bounce" to activate another entry.
There's no down side to listing the kids in another house book. All that does is state where they live, period. I wouldn't rent a place in your wife's name because should it go sideways you could find yourself out on the street. Just rent it in your own name, you can be listed in a yellow house-book even if you rent it and you kids could get listed in the blue house-book as thais living at that address too.
report back after your border-bounce and let us know how it went.
Good Luck.
Well Todd, went to border yesterday, it was quick and no problems even had a gud chat with IO and in the end he said " see you in 3months" so no problems there (as in poiphet problems) still 1500b and 300b prices, cheers