What can be done to stop this?

[Adam]

Urleft, you are the weapons expert, we know this. Let me ask you a direct question and see if you can give a straight answer for a change.

What needs to be done in the US to stop these incidents happening over and over again. How can someone who is obviously mentally ill be allowed to own 13 guns?

That is what I am asking, I am not attacking gun laws in the States, we have done that to death. I want you as a strong advocate of gun ownership to tell us what can be done to stop this happening in the future.

[CO-CO]

While we are waiting for Keith can I ask if Tasers would satisfy the "Right to bear arms"?

[urleft]

Ok, maybe you are right. He was in a Stinger unit, so maybe there was less accent on ambush / patrol missions. I will mail him.

Then he should be very familiar with SEAD where the object is to put as much lead into the air as fast as possible. 

[urleft]

Urleft, you are the weapons expert, we know this. Let me ask you a direct question and see if you can give a straight answer for a change.

What needs to be done in the US to stop these incidents happening over and over again. How can someone who is obviously mentally ill be allowed to own 13 guns?

That is what I am asking, I am not attacking gun laws in the States, we have done that to death. I want you as a strong advocate of gun ownership to tell us what can be done to stop this happening in the future.

Fair enough.  There are over 300 million people in the USA, let's just suppose that .1% are crazy, that is over 300,000 people.  Basically impossible to identify them all. 

However, as someone mentioned there appears to 1 glaring commonality in the shootings, they are almost all done in Gun Free Zones.  Eliminate them.  And secondly as Trump stated, train and arm the teachers. 

No matter what country, there are always going to homicidal crazies and there are not enough police to be everywhere.  Citizens must be ready to protect themselves.  IMHO overwhelming in our countries people are good and decent, they should be allowed to protect themselves from the nutcases.  Like today, over 80 million US gun owners committed no crimes.   For example, I was a concealed weapons permit holder for over 1/2 my life, and fortunately never encountered a situation that required it, and I have never committed a gun crime.  But most nutcases hesitate to put themselves in a situation where they can immediately lose. 

In addition, the media is complicit.  Their sensationalizing these shootings encourages copycats.  The late Paul Harvey (a famous American commentator) used to say "He would want me to mention him name", then Paul would move onto another subject without providing the name.


And as I taught my son, don't be a sheep.  If you are in a situation where a crazy is killing those around you, take action.  Start throwing things at him, books, cell phone, car keys anything, yell at other to do so, and charge him.  One of my combat instructors was Robert Howard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Howard) he taught us that he survived an ambush by charging and getting among the enemy, and we trained to that. 

[davureborn]

I enclose my son's comments. Obama wanted to stop people with a history of mental problems not to be allowed to buy or use guns, seemed like a good idea to me. Nothing personally or nationalistically insulting on my side should be deduced from this.
May I further remark that my son was the first, and probably the last, Captain Cook(e) that the Swiss army ever had and I often joked that that was why he was never going to get promoted.

::::::::::::::: (Copy)
 The Swiss Army does very well use their SIG SG 550
in automatic modus. There are 3 positions on the safety catch: 1-shot, 3-shot auto and full auto:

    1-shot is used in peace time (guard service), close combat (3 single shots in under 2s, going "body-body-head") or snipper precision shooting up to 600m.
    3-shot auto is used in war time only, mainly for sustained covering fire during an attack (while 1 group advances or prepares a bigger weapon system, the other covers).
    full-auto is also used in war time only, mainly in urban close combat (cleaning a building goes like this: room by room, one guy throws a grenade into the room and colleague "cleans" it up with a burst in full auto. In full auto, a 20-round magazine is empty in 2s

Soldiers in the Swiss Army are very well trained on their SG 550, using a method developped by Chuck Taylor. I had the personal honor to be trained by him and Alain Baeriswyl
, combining SIG P226 pistol and SG 550 shooting, HK MP5 with silencer and Remington 870 pump-gun. We also got to know and shoot non-ordonance weapons, such as the AK47, Famas (french), AR15 etc.
 
Remember that I became an Instructor for tactical combat myself, so I have pretty good knowledge of handling with any weapon:

    A weapon is not dangerous by itself nor is it when held by trained personel, it is dangerous when in the hands of idiots
    I personnaly think that the US should keep their 2nd amendment, but prior to be allowed to carry a weapon you should be trained with the Taylor method with Instructors from his school, and not some paranoïd ex-Marines. If you do not complete, you're not ready to carry a weapon. And believe me, the failure rate is high: from 10 in our group by then, only 2 became Instructors, 4 monitors (2 of them beeing French Parachute Regiment) and 4 failed. I remember one exersize that said "only shoot when the opponent still shoots at you" and Alain was shouting "still shoots" but later he went to "still moves", that's when you stop shooting (the guy moves but is no threat anymore). A guy from our group was still shooting as Alain repeated "still moves". He got desarmed on the shooting range and asked to go home.

So what I'm saying is training is ALL. But when you look at US-training grounds and stats
, you can seriously ask yourself how it is possible that so many cunts are allowed to carry weapons, and even without any training.

[urleft]

I'm a firm believer that all able bodied males should be required to go through military training.  This would go a long way towards training. 

Unfortunately you can't make things idiot proof because idiot's are so ingenious. 




you can seriously ask yourself how it is possible that so many cunts are allowed to carry weapons drive, and even without any training.

[urleft]

interesting vid here, especially at the end where Cooke says nothing Obama proposed would has stopped the latest shooting. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfcWNFPSGVA


https://youtu.be/lfcWNFPSGVA


But then some just like the sound of a failed plan without doing any cerebral action as to its validity.   This is kind of like Croc (I am not trying to insult you here bud) believing that Assault Weapons need to be banned, when they already have been banned.  The US liberals and media use of "assault weapons" means "scary/military looking", it has nothing to do with being able to fire continuously. 

[davureborn]

A quick look on Google and Wikipedia shows that assault weapons have not been banned.
Assault rifles (capable of sustained bursts) and machine guns have been tightly regulated, but not banned, since 1934.
It doesn't matter what people think assault weapons are, it matters what comes before the legislature. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban ran out after 10 years and was not renewed after 10 years. Another attempt was made after Sandy Hook and that, as we know, als0 failed. Only a small percentage of the gun shot deaths that occur in the USA are caused by assault weapons but they are the weapon of choice for would be mass killers.
Many Yanks seem to lose all common sense when you even mention gun control. Possession of guns needs to be controlled,

The difference between cars and weapons is that weapons are specifically designed to harm living beings. Of course cars kill many more people in the USA than guns but that really is side tracking the argument.

[BillH52]

All the same; when I'm in the US, I stay away from "Gun Free Zones". 

[urleft]

A quick look on Google and Wikipedia shows that assault weapons have not been banned.
Assault rifles (capable of sustained bursts) and machine guns have been tightly regulated, but not banned, since 1934.
It doesn't matter what people think assault weapons are, it matters what comes before the legislature. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban ran out after 10 years and was not renewed after 10 years. Another attempt was made after Sandy Hook and that, as we know, als0 failed. Only a small percentage of the gun shot deaths that occur in the USA are caused by assault weapons but they are the weapon of choice for would be mass killers.
Many Yanks seem to lose all common sense when you even mention gun control. Possession of guns needs to be controlled,

The difference between cars and weapons is that weapons are specifically designed to harm living beings. Of course cars kill many more people in the USA than guns but that really is side tracking the argument.

Effectively what I said:

Automatic weapons in the USA have been banned (except by special license) for almost 1/2 a century.  The so called assault weapons ban is against guns that are scary looking or look like military rifles.  For example, the AR-15 looks like a US Military M-16, but does not fire automatic, but he media would have you believe it can. 

There is more to the story not worth getting into all the details but the Feds have made legally obtaining automatic weapons an exercise in futility.  I have about 20 Army buddies I keep in email contact, we own hundreds of guns between us (one of the guys brother own a gun store).  No one owns a machine gun, and I don't personally know anyone that does. 

And I can picture the horror on a lot of your faces wonder why 20 guys need hundreds of guns.  Because we can.  I went skeet and trap shooting a while back with 2 of them that own over 100 between them.  Both are retired US Army LTCs, Vietnam Veterans and still working at an Engineering firm, one of them is a VP (and his brother owns the gun shop), and the other was on the Marine Corps rifle team (before he transferred to the Army).  We were shooting so they could determine which was the best choice of weapons to take on a vacation to pheasant hunt. 


From an article:   I can see the reasoning for making individuals jump through some hoops to own full auto weapons, as there are some people who you wouldn't want to own one, but it really pi$$es me off that individuals are limited to only owning pre-1986 transferable weapons that now command ridiculous price tags, if you can find them. For example, anyone care to guess the price of a real, transferable Russian or Bulgarian AK-47? If you could find one, figure on maybe $10K for a nice, rare example. Law enforcement can buy dealer samples brand new for 500 bucks. Now maybe it's just me, but reason tells me that if I pay the tax, pass background checks and get law enforcement to sign off on me so that I am considered worthy to own a class 3 firearm, I should be able to order the brand new $500 rifle myself. Check the prices on transferable HK MP5s as well, it's ridiculous the difference an individual and LE will pay for a piece of stamped sheet metal.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/795497/posts

[urleft]

A quick look on Google and Wikipedia shows that assault weapons have not been banned.
Assault rifles (capable of sustained bursts) and machine guns have been tightly regulated, but not banned, since 1934.
It doesn't matter what people think assault weapons are, it matters what comes before the legislature. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban ran out after 10 years and was not renewed after 10 years. Another attempt was made after Sandy Hook and that, as we know, als0 failed. Only a small percentage of the gun shot deaths that occur in the USA are caused by assault weapons but they are the weapon of choice for would be mass killers.
Many Yanks seem to lose all common sense when you even mention gun control. Possession of guns needs to be controlled,

The difference between cars and weapons is that weapons are specifically designed to harm living beings. Of course cars kill many more people in the USA than guns but that really is side tracking the argument.

I neglected to address the "Assault Weapons Ban" you mention was not renewed.  That ban had nothing to do with banning guns capable of automatic fire, it bans "scary/military" looking guns that only fired in the semi-automatic mode.  No assault weapons (i.e guns that can fire in the automatic mode) have been used in any of these shootings. 

[davureborn]

i would be interested in your criticism of this video:


Warning: my son hates it!

[urleft]

i would be interested in your criticism of this video:


Warning: my son hates it!

I will defer to your son's expert judgement on that.  While I had lots of military training my actual hands on was in the late 70s where we trained for either the Russian Hoard attack in Europe or Jungle Warfare (e.g., Vietnam), the military likes to train for the last war.  And I have no knowledge of Chuck Taylor.  In the late 80s and 90s I was promoted to my level of incompetence and kicked upstairs to "high" level assignments. 


My criticism is with the name "Assault Rifle Drill".  It is a scary looking military style weapon, but never fired in the automatic mode.  US Politicians and the media have been fostering the notion that automatic weapons are flooding the USA when in fact they are legally very difficult and expensive to obtain. 

[davureborn]

Fair enough. This is supposed to be level 4 and my son would have taken his weapon away after 5 seconds.
In your Youtube clip there is a supremely arrogant guy asking 'what is the solution?' and insisting on a reply. There is no single solution, no 'magic bullet' ha ha. I cannot see any valid reason for permitting people to have assault weapons, they are there for assaulting people. I knew a few hunters back in Switzerland and they were all 'one shot' guys, like in the Deer Hunter.
Obama's proposals were perfectly reasonable in my opinion. Individual states making their own laws is ridiculous.
End of discussion for me, nice to0 stay civilised for once.

[urleft]

But you are missing a fundamental element, most Americans believe gun ownership is a right, not something the Government permits.   

I would be hard pressed to come up with rationale for me personally to have an automatic weapon, except there were times I would like to use one just like this guy:


https://youtu.be/ezXxiD83HBA


Now what I want is the 50 cal sniper rifle.  No real reason other than I want one.  However, so far I have not been able to justify the expense, legal issues of getting one here, and the range safety requirements (you need about 6 KM of safe distance to shoot).  The range requirements are what kept me getting one while I was in the USA, made little sense to get it and then not be able to fire it.