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Author Topic: DEATH................... it comes to us all.  (Read 12289 times)

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Offline ThaiWidowsandExpats

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DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« on: June 16, 2013, 10:03:24 PM »
Prompted by the passing of an old friend, it made me think about "death".

I have no problem talking about death - my own or other's. I am at the age where I am thinking "How many years have I got left, what do I want to do (bucket list?) and what do I need to do tomake sure my missus and my 2 daughters in the UK are taken care of ?". However, I am conscious that this has often been a taboo subject with many people thinking that they are tempting fate by just talking about it.

I also need to declare a business interest in death. I own 10% of a crematorium back in the UK and Nick and I also deal with the effects of expat deaths in as far as they affect the Thai widows left behind. I shall attempt to ensure that this post does not become a tacky promotion for that business, but the fact remains that few expats plan sufficiently for their eventual demise and need some 'professional guidance'.

As Benjamin Franklin said “Nothing is certain except death and taxes.”

As hard hitting as it may be, we are all going to die. As somebody told me this week, it is not "if", but "when". As we steadily grow older I think it is important that we learn to (a) deal with that fact and (b) consider what the impact of our death will be on others - especially those that are important to us.

The first part is most difficult and very personal. Some people will avoid the subject like the plague and almost refuse to accept their mortality. Often people will leave matters until it is too late to take meaningful action as far as (b) is concerned. Frankly, that is selfish. Unless you are living alone as a confirmed bachelor there are invariably people who will be severely affected by your death; wife/children in Thailand and perhaps children/grandchildren back home.

I believe it is important to think about, and document, what you want to happen when you die. The first question is do you want to be cremated or buried, in Thailand or your home country. If this is important to you then take steps to document your wishes and let your spouse know. Those that say "just throw me in the klong" are not doing their spouse any favours!

Consider what would happen if your wishes were not properly expressed. This is a buddhist country and your widow is likely to feel duty bound to give you an appropriate send off based on buddhist traditions. If you want that, plan for it and account for it. If you don't, then be absolutely sure everyone knows what you do want to happen. If, for example, you have family back home who want you buried in the family plot - make sure your wife (and someone non-Thai) is aware of that. Otherwise, 3 days after your death it might be too late to comply with that request.

A Will is the best way to document your wishes, both for disposal of your body and your assets. Think what you want to leave behind - by that I mean a clean and tidy dispersal of your assets in accordance with your wishes. Talk to somebody about your intentions. Very often the standard approach is to leave what is in Thailand to your wife and leave what is in, say, the UK to the children of a former marriage. It may not be that simple - beyond a bank account and vehicles (maybe a condo) you are unlikely to have any assets in Thailand as land/house etc are probably in your wife's name. Remember also the requirements of the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 - adequate provision must be made for a spouse, you cannot just leave everything to Battersea Dog's Home!

Nick and I were advising one client who was concerned about his wife getting the whole of his estate in one lump sum. He was particularly worried about the immense family pressure that would be exerted on her when she suddenly came into almost 10m Baht. We have discussed an arrangement whereby she will receive 20,000 Baht a month until she is 65 - by then (20 years) she can have the remainder as a lump sum. The important this is that this is HIS wish and he has been smart enough to plan in advance for it.

Obviously, Nick and I, (through Thai Widows & Expats Limited) would be happy to help if called upon. Remember - "We are here to look after your wives........."

Our services are not necessarily required if you have a half-decent clerical mind and a basic understanding of Wills/intestacy. Knowledge of pensions, state benefits and Thai matrimonial rules are also an advantage.

One thought to leave you with; what happens if your wife pre-deceases you ? How secure are you in what is currently regarded as the matrimonial home ? We recently dealt with the death of a UK Farang where his first Thai wife had died. Despite being told (when she was terminally ill) that he could remain in the house, after his wife's death, the family had him out within 3 months.


Think also about a Living Will if you want to influence what happens about medical care if you became incapable of looking after yourself.

Whether you have 5,10 or 50 years ahead of you - enjoy what is left.

Offline candy

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 09:50:37 AM »
What a great start to the week. The usual Monday morning blues have been swept away thanks to your post.

Cheers and have a nice day. ;D

Offline Antonio

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2013, 10:11:36 AM »
What a great start to the week. The usual Monday morning blues have been swept away thanks to your post.

Cheers and have a nice day. ;D
Exactly what i thought when i first read it.

What a great start to the week doom and gloom.

Might as well get straight into it then. alcoholic cool2

Offline ThaiWidowsandExpats

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2013, 10:22:39 AM »
What a great start to the week. The usual Monday morning blues have been swept away thanks to your post.

Cheers and have a nice day. ;D

Check the obituaries again tomorrow Candy and if you are not included - have another great day in Paradise.

Intelligent people like you and antonio will already have considered what happens to your loved ones after your demise - and made appropriate arrangements. You could both be great ambassadors for the cause.

Offline Antonio

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2013, 10:44:08 AM »
What a great start to the week. The usual Monday morning blues have been swept away thanks to your post.

Cheers and have a nice day. ;D

Check the obituaries again tomorrow Candy and if you are not included - have another great day in Paradise.

Intelligent people like you and antonio will already have considered what happens to your loved ones after your demise - and made appropriate arrangements. You could both be great ambassadors for the cause.
No arrangements necessary my wife will continue to squander my money just the same as she does now. hahaha

Offline candy

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2013, 11:03:37 AM »
Check the obituaries again tomorrow Candy and if you are not included - have another great day in Paradise



 I will.  Thank you for your kind words.   Amen   pray1
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 11:14:43 AM by candy »

Offline Speros

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 12:01:41 PM »
seems a few members are a little insecure with their mortality.  party15 

Offline candy

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 12:18:10 PM »
Death and the impermanence of life
In the teaching of the Buddha, all of us will pass away eventually as a part in the natural process of birth, old-age and death and that we should always keep in mind the impermanence of life.  The life that we all cherish and wish to hold on. 
To Buddhism, however, death is not the end of life, it is merely the end of the body we inhabit in this life, but our spirit will still remain and seek out through the need of attachment, attachment to a new body and new life. Where they will be born is a result of the past and the accumulation of positive and negative action, and the resultant karma (cause and effect) is a result of ones past actions.
This would lead to the person to be reborn in one of 6 realms which are; heaven, human beings, Asura, hungry ghost, animal and hell.  Realms, according to the severity of ones karmic actions, Buddhists believe however, none of these places are permanent and one does not remain in any place indefinitely. So we can say that in Buddhism, life does not end, merely goes on in other forms that are the result of accumulated karma. Buddhism is a belief that emphasizes the impermanence of lives, including all those beyond the present life.  With this in mind we should not fear death as it will lead to rebirth.
The fear of death stemmed from the fear of cease to be existent and losing ones identity and foothold in the world.  We see our death coming long before its arrival, we notice impermanence in the changes we see around us and to us in the arrival of aging and the suffering due to losing our youth.  Once we were strong and beautiful and as we age, as we approach our final moments of life  we realize how fleeting such a comfortable place actually was.
Grieving
It is natural to grieve the loss of family members and others we knew, as we adjust to living without their presence and missing them as part of our lives. The death of a loved one, or even someone we were not close to, is terribly painful event, as time goes on and the people we know pass away along the journey of life, we are reminded of our own inevitable ends in waiting and everything is a blip of transience and impermanent.
At a certain moment, the world seems suddenly so empty and the sense of desperation appears to be eternity.  The greater the element of grief and personal loss one tends to feel sorry for oneself.
 
Some of us may have heard the story of the women who came to the Buddha in great anguish, carrying her dead child pleading him to bring the child back to life. The Buddha said Bring to me a mustard seed from any household where no-one had ever died and I will fulfill your wish.  The woman's attempt to search for such seed from houses were in vain and of course she could not find any household in which no-one had ever died and suddenly she realized the universality of death.
 
Karma
According to Buddhism, our lives and all that occurs in our lives is a result of Karma.  Every action creates a new karma, this karma or action is created with our body, our speech or our mind and this action leaves a subtle imprint on our mind which has the potential to ripen as future happiness or future suffering, depending on whether the action was positive or negative.
If we bring happiness to people, we will be happy.  If we create suffering, we will experience suffering either in this life or in a future one.
This is called the Law of Karma, or the Law of Cause and Effect.  Karmic law will lead the spirit of the dead to be reborn, in realms which are suitable appropriate to their karmic accumulations.
According to His Holiness, the 14 th Dali Lama of Tibet, that to cultivate the good karma, our good actions are an excellent way prepare for our death. Not performing evil deeds, keeping our heart and mind pure, doing no harm, no killing, sexual misconduct or lying, not using drugs or alcohol has very positive merit which enable us to die as we have lived.
The way we pass reflects the way we lived our lives, a good death putting a good stamp on a good life. As Leonardo Da Vinci once wrote in his notebook; Just as a well spent day brings happy sleep, so a life well spent brings a happy death. If we have lived a life of emotional turmoil, of conflict selfish desire unconcerned for others, our dying will be full of regrets, troubles and pain. It is far better to care for the lives for all around us rather than spending a fortune in prolonging life or seeking ways to extend it for those who can afford it, at the expense of relieving suffering in more practical ways.  Improving the moral and spiritual quality of life improves its quality for us all rather than the selfish individualism that benefits the elite few who draw most resources.

Preparing for death and Buddhist rituals associated with dying
Buddhist clergy often remind their followers about closeness of death, emphasize the importance in getting to know death and take time to prepare for their own demise.
How do we prepare for death?.  It is really simple, just behave in a manner which you believe is responsible, good and positive for yourself and towards others. This leads to calmness, happiness and an outlook which contributes to a calm and controlled mind at the time of death.
 
Through this positive and compassionate outlook of life, always being aware of the impermanence of life and having a loving attitude towards all living things in this transient existence we will be free of fear in opposite to grasping selfishly to life due to not having experienced happiness in life.
Having lead a responsible and compassionate life and have no regrets when death approaches enables us to surrender without a struggle to the inevitable and in a state of grace which need not be as uncomfortable as we are led to believe. A dying Buddhist person is likely to request the service of a monk or nun in their particular tradition to assist in this process further, making the transitional experience of death as peaceful and free of fear as can be possibly achieved.
Before and at the moment of death and for a period after death, the monk, nun or spiritual friends will read prayers and chants from the Buddhist Scriptures.  In Buddhist traditions, this death bed chanting is regarded as very important and is ideally the last thing the Buddhist hears. Buddhists believe that we can actively assist and bring relief to the dying members through assisting the dying through the process of dying.
Through Buddhist doctrine we are told by Buddhist masters that the final moment of our consciousness is paramount, the most important moment of all.  If the ill person is in hospital and the diagnosis is grim that the person cannot possibly survived, the family should call in the Buddhist priest to pray for the loved one so that at the final moment, the right state of mind has been generated within the person and they can find their way into a higher state of rebirth as they leave the present lives.
The nurses and family members are not supposed to touch the corpse, having to wait 3-8 hours after breathing ceases before touching the body for any preparation after the death. We Buddhists believe that the spirit of a person will linger on for sometime and can be affected by what happened to the corpse. It is important that the body is treated gently and with respect and that the priest can help the spirit continues its journey calmly to higher states, not causing the spirit to becoming angry and confused and may be more likely to be reborn into the lower realms.
In the Mahayana Buddhism, especially, Vietnamese tradition we pray for the dead for 49 days after passing away, 49 being the estimated time it takes for the spirit to be reborn again into a new life. Some spirits are reborn 3 days, 21 days, 49 days or 100 days after death, and in some cases even 7 years.
 
Rebirth
The concept of rebirth or reincarnation has become more popular in the west in recent years due to the influence of Tibetan Buddhism, especially, the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying (by Sogyal Rinpoche, 1992) became a best seller in the USA and has been widely read throughout the developed countries by new generations who are concerned with alternative thinking and eastern cultural perspectives.  Naturally people concern with life beyond death was stimulated by the ideas contained in such philosophies and beliefs.
 
Nirvana
The supreme aim of Buddhism is to obtain nirvana or enlightenment. This translated means a state of liberation or illumination from the limitations of existence.  It is the liberation from the cycle of rebirth through countless lives up and down the 6 states of existence. It is obtained through the extinction of desire.
Nirvana is a state that is obtainable in this life through the right aspiration, purity of life, and the elimination of egotism. This cessation of existence as we know it, the attainment of being, as distinct from becoming. [1] The Buddha speaks of it as unborn, un-originated, uncreated, unformed, contrasting it with the born, originated, created, and formed phenomenal world. Those who have obtained the state of Nirvana are called Buddhas.  Gautama Siddhartha had obtained this state and had become a Buddha at 35. However it is now believed that it was only after he had passed away that he reached such a place of perfect tranquility, because some residue of human defilement would continue to exist as long as his physical body existed.
According to Buddhism if a human does not obtain nirvana or enlightenment, as it is known, the person cannot escape the cycle of death and rebirth and are inevitably be reborn into the 6 possible states beyond this our present life, these being in order from the highest to lowest;
 
Heaven. In Buddhism there are 37 different levels of heaven where beings experience peace and long lasting happiness without suffering in the heavenly environment.
Human life.  In Buddhism we can be reborn into human life over and over, either wealthy or poor, beautiful or not so, and every state between and both as it it is served up to us.  Anything can happen, as is found in human life and society all around us as we are familiar with in the day to day human world in is myriad of possibilities.  What we get is a result of our Karma of what we have dragged with us from previous existences and how it manifests in our temporary present lives.
Asura. A spiritual state of Demi-Gods but not the happy state experienced by the gods in the heavens above this state.  The Demi-Gods are consumed with jealousy, because unlike humans, they can clearly see the superior situation of the gods in the heavens above them. They constantly compete and struggle with the gods due to their dissatisfaction with their desires from the others.
Hungry Ghost. This spiritual realm of those who committed excessive amounts of evil deeds and who are obsessed with finding food and drink which they cannot experience and thus remain unsatisfied and tortured by the experience. They exhaust themselves in the constant fruitless searching.
Animals. This realm is visible to humans and it is where spirits of humans are reborn if they have killed animals or have committed a lot of other evil acts.  Animals do not have the freedom that humans would experience due to being a subject constantly hunted by humans, farmed and used in farming, also as beasts for entertainment.
Hell. This realm is not visible to humans. It is a place where beings born there experience a constant state of searing pain and the various types of hell realms reads like a variety of horrific torture chambers. Those with a great deal of negative Karma can remain in such places for eons of time.
 
To conclude, as already mentioned, none of us can avoid death and if we are not free from the vicious cycle of death and rebirth, we are doomed to the endless cycles of life and death and its paradoxical nature of suffering, of happiness and sadness, youth and ageing, healthiness and sickness, pain and death, all because we are so attached to the existence in the first place.
The Buddha urged us to prepare for death, to prepare for that journey by cleansing the mind and not being so attached to things, to be able to let go and release ourselves for needing to be, from needing to have. Through this we will not suffer so much as we pass through the final stage of the present life, we can let go, be grateful for what we had but not clutch to it, not try to ensure permanency and cause ourselves to suffer more than we need to. This way we can end the cycle and leave forever, obtaining nirvana and release from the cycle of death and rebirth.
 
 party11


Offline ThaiWidowsandExpats

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 12:35:34 PM »
All very good stuff Candy, for those that believe in Buddhism. Preparing for death is one thing, and your article includes some very good points. However an afterlife is not universally accepted by religious beliefs. Most religions do not mention being reborn.

Belief is wonderful for those that want to believe, but for many, proof of all things others believe in are needed, and such proof does notappear to exist.

Offline candy

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 12:55:22 PM »
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.

What we think, we become.

There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.

The secret of health for both mind and body is not to mourn for the past, worry about the future, or anticipate troubles, but to live in the present moment wisely and earnestly.

Even death is not to be feared by one who has lived wisely.

Offline DeputyDavid

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2013, 02:00:14 PM »
Maybe it is the alcohol, maybe not.  I grew up in Episcopal religion.  When grown I began to lean towards atheism.  When blessed with the wisdom of the Thai people, I began to look at Buddhism. I believe I must study to know where I belong.

Offline Nobby

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 04:35:47 PM »
The idea is to die young as late as possible.


Ashley Montagu

Offline ThaiWidowsandExpats

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2013, 07:43:37 PM »
What a great start to the week. The usual Monday morning blues have been swept away thanks to your post.

Cheers and have a nice day. ;D

Check the obituaries again tomorrow Candy and if you are not included - have another great day in Paradise.

Intelligent people like you and antonio will already have considered what happens to your loved ones after your demise - and made appropriate arrangements. You could both be great ambassadors for the cause.
No arrangements necessary my wife will continue to squander my money just the same as she does now. hahaha

That is indeed good news.

Assuming you paid some NIC's, does she know how to get the £2,000 bereavement payment ?

Best advice seems to be get her pregnant just before you leave this mortal coil (or get someone else to do it for you) and she could be in for a healthy monthly stipend for about 19 years.

Offline Antonio

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2013, 07:51:22 PM »
What a great start to the week. The usual Monday morning blues have been swept away thanks to your post.

Cheers and have a nice day. ;D

Check the obituaries again tomorrow Candy and if you are not included - have another great day in Paradise.

Intelligent people like you and antonio will already have considered what happens to your loved ones after your demise - and made appropriate arrangements. You could both be great ambassadors for the cause.
No arrangements necessary my wife will continue to squander my money just the same as she does now. hahaha

That is indeed good news.

Assuming you paid some NIC's, does she know how to get the £2,000 bereavement payment ?

Best advice seems to be get her pregnant just before you leave this mortal coil (or get someone else to do it for you) and she could be in for a healthy monthly stipend for about 19 years.
Let's not cross any boundary's with the wrong choice of words.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 07:56:49 PM by Antonio »

Offline ThaiWidowsandExpats

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Re: DEATH................... it comes to us all.
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2013, 09:56:23 PM »
What a great start to the week. The usual Monday morning blues have been swept away thanks to your post.

Cheers and have a nice day. ;D

Check the obituaries again tomorrow Candy and if you are not included - have another great day in Paradise.

Intelligent people like you and antonio will already have considered what happens to your loved ones after your demise - and made appropriate arrangements. You could both be great ambassadors for the cause.
No arrangements necessary my wife will continue to squander my money just the same as she does now. hahaha

That is indeed good news.

Assuming you paid some NIC's, does she know how to get the £2,000 bereavement payment ?

Best advice seems to be get her pregnant just before you leave this mortal coil (or get someone else to do it for you) and she could be in for a healthy monthly stipend for about 19 years.
Let's not cross any boundary's with the wrong choice of words.

As Candy so rightly said:-

"Even death is not to be feared by one who has lived wisely"

 

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