Yet Another Gun Outrage in USA

[Alan]

Thats a terrible turn of events Pablo and just goes to show what gun culture does for society. Maybe American gun culture is to far down the line for hope of change for a safe and civilised society in which to live peacefully without fear.
I do however fail to understand how carrying that gun changes things for you in the particular situations you have discribed. When you were mugged the guys came at you guns raised. Had you drawn your gun the situation would have turned lethal and you would have endangered yourself and your friends. Its a terrible and frightening situation that no one should have to suffer but all you lost was your wallets!

Regarding Urlefts nice video and his wish to rid America of all its wild boar and own sniper riffles to impress his mates... Sad!

[Ahab]

A trend I have noted from this and other similar threads is that gun pro Americans moving abroad insist on taking their gun pro culture with them. This usually falls outside the law making their actions illegal. It would therefore be safe to assume gun prohibative laws have little meaning to these people.

Most of the pro gun Americans that have commented on threads like this are responsible, legal owners of guns. I could still be pro gun if I move to Thailand, but if the laws there do not allow for me to legally have a gun I will follow the law.  This is the point that many cannot or will not recognize and that is that most Americans follow the gun laws (everywhere). If I will follow the gun laws in Hawaii, you can bet that I will follow them in Thailand where the penalties (and prisons) are much harsher.

The thing that I don't understand is why the anti gun side is so against anyone even having a remote chance of protecting themselves and their family from harm.  You guys seem to cherish being absolutely helpless and depending on someone else for your safety. Here in America there is a saying "when seconds count the police are minutes away". I don't think it is unreasonable if someone was breaking into my house that I should be able to retrieve a legally owned firearm, than I have been trained to use, then call the police and make sure that no harm comes to my family in the minutes that it takes for the police to arrive.

To me this seems very reasonable, I respect others opinions on this topic but I think it is wrong to assume that because someone is "pro guns" while living in the USA that we will immediately start breaking the gun laws of a foreign country as soon as we move there. I and the vast majority of gun owning Americans follow the laws, and it is nonsensical to think that we would not follow the laws of a foreign country. If I cannot legally own or possess a gun in Thailand, I will not own own/possess a gun in Thailand. That does not make me any less "pro gun" or change the way I think about the right to self protection. It just means that I cannot have a gun while living in Thailand.

[Ahab]

Urleft you really dont answer my question, i am asking you personally if you think there would be less deaths in the usa if the gun laws were stricter, i am not concerned about some guy getting hold of a gun illegally,if the laws were change to make it harder to own guns do you think there would be less deaths . YES or NO

I will answer your question the answer is probably no. Most of the gun violence in the USA is done by people that don't follow the existing laws. So the answer to people not following the already strict laws (such as in Connecticut) is to make even stricter laws? Great idea why didn't we do that before? How about a law that it is illegal to shoot children, or your mother, or than you cannot bring a firearm to a school. The fact is that even is you totally banned the private ownership of guns in the USA and then confiscated every gun in the USA you would still have people that would not follow the existing laws or people that are mental. The numbers would likely be less, but this scenario will not happen in the USA in our life times.

[nookiebear]

Its about time for another shooting spree!!

[Prakhonchai Nick]

As a non American I am not familiar with the gun laws, but have learnt a fair bit from this thread. It appears that everyone may own one or more guns, which do not have to be confined to the home, but may be taken outside (presumably in a concealed manner) subject to an easily obtained permit. That is of course with the exception of designated Gun Free Zones

I think similar laws exist in Thailand, with many bars, restaurants and clubs diplaying notices refusing admission to those toting guns. I would suggest that since money is not so freely available in Thailand there are considerably less gun owners as a proportion of the population. Nevertheless they exist, and regularly we read in the Bangkok Post of shoot-ups.

I believe changes to the gun laws in America have to be made in stages and my first priority would be to prevent all guns being taken away from the home.  Keep them at home, and protect your family and property if you so wish. No need to tote exotic guns/rifles etc round the town to impress friends and others! If you have extensive acres of land and want to keep the coyotes at bay, then OK -it is your property. But the wild boar population is not your concern if they are not on your property - let the proper folk deal with them. And if your buddies want you to assist them, on their land, let them supply the guns -not require you to bring your own.

With all guns legally eliminated from the streets, it would be far easier for the police and authorities to monitor the situation. They already stop and frisk likely looking troublemakers. Find a gun on a person outside, and that would mean a minimum jail sentence (5 years maybe).  Anyone caught with a gun used in anger or in a threatening way should perhaps receive the ultimate penalty.

Simplistic maybe, but food for thought  A start has to be made somewhere!

[Alan]

A trend I have noted from this and other similar threads is that gun pro Americans moving abroad insist on taking their gun pro culture with them. This usually falls outside the law making their actions illegal. It would therefore be safe to assume gun prohibative laws have little meaning to these people.

Most of the pro gun Americans that have commented on threads like this are responsible, legal owners of guns. I could still be pro gun if I move to Thailand, but if the laws there do not allow for me to legally have a gun I will follow the law.  This is the point that many cannot or will not recognize and that is that most Americans follow the gun laws (everywhere). If I will follow the gun laws in Hawaii, you can bet that I will follow them in Thailand where the penalties (and prisons) are much harsher.

The thing that I don't understand is why the anti gun side is so against anyone even having a remote chance of protecting themselves and their family from harm.  You guys seem to cherish being absolutely helpless and depending on someone else for your safety. Here in America there is a saying "when seconds count the police are minutes away". I don't think it is unreasonable if someone was breaking into my house that I should be able to retrieve a legally owned firearm, than I have been trained to use, then call the police and make sure that no harm comes to my family in the minutes that it takes for the police to arrive.

To me this seems very reasonable, I respect others opinions on this topic but I think it is wrong to assume that because someone is "pro guns" while living in the USA that we will immediately start breaking the gun laws of a foreign country as soon as we move there. I and the vast majority of gun owning Americans follow the laws, and it is nonsensical to think that we would not follow the laws of a foreign country. If I cannot legally own or possess a gun in Thailand, I will not own own/possess a gun in Thailand. That does not make me any less "pro gun" or change the way I think about the right to self protection. It just means that I cannot have a gun while living in Thailand.

May I just remind you of this Ahab.


International News clippings / Re: Gun Culture in USA
« on: December 17, 2012, 07:39:56 AM »


Quote from: Alan on December 17, 2012, 06:19:39 AM



Quote from: Ahab on December 17, 2012, 02:58:34 AM

Or this?



Safe? What message of normallity does this send to these kids? Ahab you gave me all the pridictable answers I expected. So how you gunna live in Thailand without your guns?


I think it would be more normal to get used a teacher with a firearm  than to be killed by a Palestinian terrorist that would like nothing more than to get into a classroom full of Jewish school children with a gun.  Normal is being alive. Alan do you ever think that my answers were "predictable" because they were logical. I will live just fine in Thailand, my wife will have a gun and it will be kept in the house (locked in a gun safe) and just like in the USA we will hopefully and probably never have to use it. 

[Prakhonchai Nick]

No disrespect to Ahab's wife, -or anyones for that matter,  but the mere thought of Isaan  jungle bunnies with guns is rather worrying!

[Prakhonchai Nick]

Thai women "fly off the handle" very quickly, and in the heat of the moment will grab anything readily available to attack (usually their husband). Most times the best they can find is a knife. That's bad enough, but if a loaded gun were available, I genuinely believe they would shoot without realising what they were doing. They seem to have a mental block when in a rage, and find it hard after the event to recall what they did and why. Too late in some cases!

I have been attacked with a knife in my home on 2 occasions by 2 separate Thai wives -who for 99.9% of the time are/were the gentlest of Thai women! And in case you are wondering - no mia noi was the cause!

[nookiebear]

No disrespect to Ahab's wife, -or anyones for that matter,  but the mere thought of Isaan  jungle bunnies with guns is rather worrying!

I am thinking of 'arming' my Jungle Bunny!

[Alan]

You actually married the same type twice!!!!!! I think you genralise or have that magnetic attraction Nick.
Your missing the point though, the gun is registered with the wife but purchased at the wishes of Ahab.

[Prakhonchai Nick]

I thought of you Nookie when I referred to Jungle Bunnies! 

[nookiebear]

Thai women "fly off the handle" very quickly, and in the heat of the moment will grab anything readily available to attack (usually their husband). Most times the best they can find is a knife. That's bad enough, but if a loaded gun were available, I genuinely believe they would shoot without realising what they were doing. They seem to have a mental block when in a rage, and find it hard after the event to recall what they did and why. Too late in some cases!

I have been attacked with a knife in my home on 2 occasions by 2 separate Thai wives -who for 99.9% of the time are/were the gentlest of Thai women! And in case you are wondering - no mia noi was the cause!

Reading your last paragraph & knowing you ,I can perhaps understand why!

[nookiebear]

Where is Urleft today........Still got his head stuck in the sand

[Prakhonchai Nick]

You actually married the same type twice!!!!!! I think you generalise or have that magnetic attraction Nick.
Your missing the point though, the gun is registered with the wife but purchased at the wishes of Ahab.

I think all Thai women are capable of fighting with whatever is available. We are all potential magnets Alan.

Regardless of who the gun is registered to (and a farang cannot legally own a gun in Thailand) it will be in the home and available for use by the wife should she see fit to use it for any purpose.

[Prakhonchai Nick]

Reading your last paragraph & knowing you ,I can perhaps understand why!

Perhaps you ought to live a bit more dangerously Nookie! Gets the adrenalin flowing!