What would you Do ?

[Jamaw]

You have to differenciate between a deliberate and willful act and negligence! Fining them won't improve the standards or educe the accidents. It is a very complex subject. If you do emphasise only enforcement then your putting a bandaid over a gaping wound!

It has to be done constructively starting with Education and concluding with Enforcement. Countries that dive into Enforcement are continually chasing their tails. Enforcement as a first resort is an admission of failure!

I have lectured on road safety at world conferences in London, Kuwait and Ukraine.

[rufusredtail]

 I sincerely apologise to admin , if this subject was wrong to do , but as one that does not live there and may be one day i will , i have learnt something today, now found out 2 new items , 1 dundeemk6 , about a work permit, i know about the visa run but never new if one lived there you needed a permit and secondly jam saw , of recording deaths in road accidents , you have to appreciate i am trying to find out , about Thailand before i move and how better than to ask some one , thank you for replying

[Jamaw]

refusredtail. It is not as simple as that! I know of some good farangs that have never settled and went back, it's down to the individual. As for the country there is good and bad everywhere and despite what is said here the good far outweighs the bad. I've been to 38 countries working in most of them, living in Arab countries for many years and I wouldn't live anywhere else but here!

[Prakhonchai Nick]

Speeding is a deliberate and wilful act.  Driving in the wrong lane or against the traffic flow is too. I, like most others exceed 90kph on major highways, knowing that in the unlikely event of being caught, I can probably pay 200bt and be on my way.

If the chances of getting caught are much higher, and I know it will cost me at least 10,000bt, I would, like most others, stick to 90.

Certainly education is needed, but where do you begin to educate some 20million+. Fine them off the roads first, THEN start to educate them.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

[Jamaw]

nick - not always! We have been though this and in the mid-90's the UK introduced speed awareness courses for offenders. Those that were fined and endorsed went on to re-offend. Those that did the compulsary courses generally did not. I don't want to get repetative but it starts with education, I get very annoyed because they hug the middle or outside lane but they do that because in many cases that's how they were trained!

You can drive dangerously and be charged for careless use of speed when driving below the speed limit!

They simply don't understand the rules, the reason for the rules and the risk!

Much is made of drink driving but at least 5 times more are killed through fatigue and ten times by 'distracted' driving!

Nick, I feel your frustration but I can assure you it's worse in all the Arab countries and the worst country in the world is India.

...don't delete the picture admin, just a bit of fun.....really!

[Prakhonchai Nick]

I recall that some 30/40 years ago (maybe more) on TV in England, there were regular special 2/3 minute instructional programmmes between programmes, showing how to drive correctly.

In view of the large number of deaths on the roads here in Thailand, and the huge underlying cost to Thailand as a whole it would be in the government's interests to start educating the Thai people in a similar way.

The schools could also spend 10 minutes a day teaching the older kids, especially since most of them have motorbikes, yet are well below the minimum age to drive and take a test!

 Also the driving tests need to be beefed up and the payment of bribes to pass and obtain a licence must be cracked down on. But of course these are all pipe dreams whilst Thailand remains one of Asia's most corrupt countries.

[Jamaw]

Nick. please don't go there! You are, politely, well behind the times mate!

Everything starts with education, it is a near impossible task to re-train adults especially one's that have been poorly trained. I speak as a training manager of 20 years experience and head of a training Institute in the Middle East as well as a consultant to numerous countries in Asia but not Thailand!!!!!
In any form of learning there has to be a syllabus! There is no driver training syllabus in Thailand so it becomes a matter of opinion instead of an opinion that matters! The tests should be accredited and internationally audited so the they are examined properly, standardisation is as important as standards! It is far too easy to become an instructor in Thailand and remain one as it is also in Australia and USA).

I'm also an advanced examiner & instructor amongst many other things so whatever your frustrations I can assure you they are minimal compared to mine as I'd rather work here in Thailand for much less money than I'm getting now than travel all over Asia as I did last year (22 flights and 121 hotel nights). I'm off again at the end of this month for 6 months, I's rather be here providing my much needed skills to a country I live in that needs them but Thailand is insular and will not accept international help!

[Admin]

Great info Jamaw.

[Prakhonchai Nick]

Jamaw  I fully  accept your views, but the Brits and many other nationalities are far more receptive to change and obeying the law than the Thai's

I realise that I am behind the times, not surprising really having been here almost a quarter of a century. I agree you cannot retrain adults, so what is the alternative to fining them into submission. There isn't one as far as I can see and most of the current younger adults will still be around for the next 50 years (if they haven't killed themselves and everyone else before then). Take away their alcohol and gambling money and some, may, just may decide to toe the line.

[Jamaw]

Easy to bore the pants off some here as road safety is viewed as a boring subject. I honestly share Nicks frustrations and that of many others but how do they think I feel that I have a an international track record in Driver Training/Road Safety/ and Security and I have to travel most of the year (ok the $$$ is very good) but I'd rather stay here in Thailand and help. I've written many letters offering to give my services either in training, lectures or even training Thais up to UK standards - yes it can be done because I was the first person to bring UK accredited advanced driver training and testing to Oman so it can certainly be done with Thai's. I have never had the dignity of a reply and when I met with a Thai Minister he stated he's love to have me onboard but Thailand only does this in house!

I feel like I can see a man drowning and the politicians won't let me save him!

[rufusredtail]

I think jam saw is correct in saying EDUACATION ,  i have lived in uk for 5 years , and there driving , is far better than Australia , very polite drivers , let you in , on side roads , pass on the right side only if in lanes , here in Australia , pass on any side , dangerous, we had the highest road toll in the world i think 1978, Guinness book of records , in queensland , now since speed cameras introduced , driving habits have changed , so if you are taught correctly from the start , you carry that over , in your driving , here to easy to get your license , should be made much harder , and over a period of days

[Jamaw]

Nick you points are good and constructive, what works in one country doesn't always work in another. What would I do in Thailand? I would confiscate the vehicles that are involved in offences such as speeding. Then and only then when the whole family has been put into chaos with no transport will they learn. They would be banned from buying or registering any other vehicle until they have been re-trained, re-tested and heavily fined. The vehicle that has been pounded should be sold and the proceeds go into re-educaton.

I can see corruption licking its lips now but it's a start!

[Jamaw]

refusedtail please don't start me on Oz. I was there most of last year and it is at least 20 years behind the UK and that is from an Oz MD that I trained! Oz is very heavy on enforcement and weak on training. Anyone can be a trainer in a week and that's it for life. In the UK it takes 2 years to become a basic instructor and you are evaluated between 2 and 4 years and if your standards fall your are struck of the register. Oz does not  have a register or an accredited training syllabus.

[rufusredtail]

They have also here HOON LAWS , where if you are caught hooning  you have vehicle taking off you and fined , if your a  repeat offender , not sure how many times , your vehicle is crashed, it does teach some . 

[Jamaw]

Yes they do and the average hoon offends 5 times so either he failed Maths or he ran out of gas but it doesn't work. Melbourne has been quite successful in dealing with that but other States not. Look at the drink driving offences in Queensland...about ten times more than UK!!!

I have to be honest and say the standard of instruction in Oz is shocking. I have an Oz mate I trained in the Middle East, he went back to Adelaide and couldn't stick it.

They tried to pass a law in Canberra that everyone should re-take their tests again at 65.....except for MP's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!