Gun Culture in USA

[urleft]

Maybe others should take a close look at themselves:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1223193/Culture-violence-Gun-crime-goes-89-decade.html

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade

Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold.
The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year  -  a rise of 89 per cent.
In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold.
In eighteen police areas, gun crime at least doubled.
The statistic will fuel fears that the police are struggling to contain gang-related violence, in which the carrying of a firearm has become increasingly common place.
Last week, police in London revealed they had begun carrying out armed patrols on some streets.
The move means officers armed with sub-machine guns are engaged in routine policing for the first time.

Shadow Home Secretary, Chris Grayling, said last night: 'In areas dominated by gang culture, we're now seeing guns used to settle scores between rivals as well as turf wars between rival drug dealers.
'We need to redouble our efforts to deal with the challenge.'
He added: 'These figures are all the more alarming given that it is only a week since the Metropolitan Police said it was increasing regular armed patrols in some areas of the capital'.

And as far as "Anyone who isnt American knows why!!"  When I asked a local Thai the response was "Who is Trayvon?"  Wish I was smart enough to be able to speak for everyone in the World that is not American.  Might want to look to yourself Nookie and stop being so bigoted. 

[mike]

Maybe others should take a close look at themselves:

 

Maybe they should....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

How bad is gun crime in the US? The latest data from the FBI's uniform crime reports is out and it provides a fascinating picture of the use of firearms in crimes across America.

At the beginning of the year the shooting spree in Tucson, Arizona, that targeted congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords left six dead, including a nine-year-old child. But since then, the issue has been given scant attention.

However, the figures themselves are astounding for Brits used to around 600 murders per year. In 2010 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms.

The FBI crime statistics are based on reports to FBI bureau and local law enforcement. The figures are not complete - there are no stats for Florida on firearm murders and the data for Illinois is "incomplete". But even so it provides a detailed picture of attacks by state.

[urleft]

The number 1 cause of death and injury in the world is traffic accidents, makes gun deaths start to be insignificant by comparison.

We need to ban all cars, trucks and scooters for safety.  Note that vehicles and drivers are already licensed, and it is not working. 


http://autos.aol.com/article/road-deaths-a-global-epidemic-on-par-with-diseases-says-new-r/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing8%7Cdl3%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D158389


Road Deaths A Global 'Epidemic' On Par With Diseases, Says New Report


Traffic fatalities are the No. 1 killer of young people


Every six seconds, someone is killed or seriously injured in a traffic accident. Every day, 3,500 people are killed in car crashes.

That means traffic fatalities are a global epidemic on par with malaria and tuberculosis, according to a new report issued by the Campaign for Global Road Safety.

"The epidemic has reached crisis proportions," wrote Kevin Watkins, a Brookings Institute researcher who authored the report, and the problem is "set to worse over the years ahead."

There are 1.3 million annual global road deaths, and they are the No. 1 global cause of deaths of young people ages 10 to 24. Approximately 260,000 children die in car accidents annually, according to the World Health Organization.

Air pollution also kills an estimated 1.3 million people each year, according to the report, and 70 to 90 percent of fatal pollutants, such as carbon monoxide and sulphur dioxide, originate from automotive traffic, the report says.

"There are no surprises or hidden magic bullets for tackling the road traffic injury crisis," Watkins writes. "Vehicles need to be separated from vulnerable road users, such as pedestrians and cyclists."

[tonypace01]

The argument about global traffic deaths is irrelevant to the discussion of crimes committed with guns in America. Of the 3500 global deaths each day, 3400 could occur in Thailand, perhaps Bangkok alone, and the Philippines or elsewhere.
I have this recurring dream. In it, I enter a convention center where members of the NRA (of which I myself was once a member) are meeting. I go to the podium, lift up my beautifully crafted aluminum (“aluminium”) attaché case, open it, and turn it to the audience to reveal its contents: a small yield nuclear device, fully armed and capable of taking out all of South Pattaya (although who would notice?).
Would people be horrified? Would they panic and run over each other for the nearest, yet unfinished fallout shelter? Damn right they would. Why would people be so adamant about keeping guns if they are not so easily frightened? And we Americans do frighten easily, witness weapons of mass destruction, Taliban, and Homeland Security.  Compare for example the response of the Londoners and the blitz to the response of the Americans and the twin towers. Or the Russians and Stalingrad to the Americans and Pearl Harbor (spelled without the “u” because it is a proper noun and not subject to transliteration no matter how British you are).
The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not mention guns, or muskets, or even knives, it says arms, a lovely generic term that extends far beyond guns and bayonets and grenades and fertilizer; to wit: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” See? Nothing about guns, nothing about nuclear weapons. But I think we can agree that, by definition, nuclear weapons and guns are ARMS. So, Urleft, if someone like me moves into your neighborhood whose hobby is making small nuclear arms, how strongly will your defense be of the right to bear ARMS?
Mahatma Gandhi wrote The Seven Blunders of the World. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Blunders_of_the_World)
But it was his grandson, Arun, who wrote the eighth and most important, “Rights without responsibilities.” Whenever Americans protest in favor of their rights, the term responsibility is always conspicuous by its absence.
*****   
NOW, to our American cousins in Europe who enjoy being critical of American gun laws, I ask you to look at your own laws which keep your unarmed officials responsible for the security and the safety of its citizenry from having the same power as those who would obstruct that safety and security. I envision a scenario where a constable in a neatly starched uniform and sporting a florid waxed moustache comes upon a random shootout between a couple of Asian gangs in White Chapel. He waves his night stick around and calls out, “Right! Enough of the shooting. Let’s all put away our guns, pick up our dead and go home. There’s a good lad.” Sound ludicrous? It’s no more ludicrous than the reality. I think the best description of this policy comes from a line by one of John Cleese’s characters in “Life of Brian.” He describes Eric Idles character who wants to be called Loretta and make babies. “He’s got a problem with reality.” The U.K. truly has a problem with reality.
Why do you think we have these problems? Why are London and Los Angeles full of western Asians, Africans, and Latinos who have no compunction against forming gangs and stealing and killing their way to fortune? Because the people in the West want to be good guys. We want to be liked, maybe even loved. Americans certainly do. To a lesser extent, perhaps, so do the Brits, although they would leap to deny it. Witness Kipling. We like to relate to the invitation etched at the base of the Statue of Liberty,
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Usually we think about only the first two lines. The problem is that we and the U.K. do not get “the homeless, tempest-tost…” We get the criminals. The homeless, tempest-tost cannot afford to get to the U.S. or the U.K; even Mexicans and South and Central Americans who have to pay a small fortune to travel hundreds of miles in airless vans or crawl through precipitous tunnels under borders. Some of them survive, but not all.
It will not be until Americans come to the realization that the world is a wee different today from the way it was in 1789; it will not be until the British-American Empire accepts the reality that the immigrants to their respective countries are eroding the very values that brought them there; that these countries will take steps to make the cultural and legal changes that will save them. It won’t be in my time. 
My advice: Learn to speak Chinese and/or Spanish. Meanwhile, it is not more weapons we need but more  detection of weapons.
One more word to Urleft: When the citizens of a country have to bear arms to protect themselves, this is a failed country.

[mike]

The number 1 cause of death and injury in the world is traffic accidents, makes gun deaths start to be insignificant by comparison.

We need to ban all cars, trucks and scooters for safety.  Note that vehicles and drivers are already licensed, and it is not working. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Not only do people in the USA like to kill themselves with guns as compared to the UK (10.27 per 100k v .46 for England and Wales)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

They also like to kill themselves with their cars too (12.3 per 100K v 3.6)

Interesting to see that there is a massive difference between the two ratios - 10.27 / 0.46 for gun related deaths compared with 12.3 / 3/6 for traffic related deaths. I wonder why that is ?

[urleft]

I have this recurring dream. In it, I enter a convention center where members of the NRA (of which I myself was once a member) are meeting. I go to the podium, lift up my beautifully crafted aluminum (“aluminium”) attaché case, open it, and turn it to the audience to reveal its contents: a small yield nuclear device, fully armed and capable of taking out all of South Pattaya (although who would notice?).
Would people be horrified? Would they panic and run over each other for the nearest, yet unfinished fallout shelter? Damn right they would. Why would people be so adamant about keeping guns if they are not so easily frightened? And we Americans do frighten easily, witness weapons of mass destruction, Taliban, and Homeland Security.  Compare for example the response of the Londoners and the blitz to the response of the Americans and the twin towers. Or the Russians and Stalingrad to the Americans and Pearl Harbor (spelled without the “u” because it is a proper noun and not subject to transliteration no matter how British you are).
The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not mention guns, or muskets, or even knives, it says arms, a lovely generic term that extends far beyond guns and bayonets and grenades and fertilizer; to wit: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” See? Nothing about guns, nothing about nuclear weapons. But I think we can agree that, by definition, nuclear weapons and guns are ARMS. So, Urleft, if someone like me moves into your neighborhood whose hobby is making small nuclear arms, how strongly will your defense be of the right to bear ARMS?

Yes you are correct, guns are not mentioned, the term arms are used.  Using the federlist papers: http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html  as a basis for the intent of the framers, arms was what was available in the at the time the constitution was written.  The framers never envisoned nuclear weapons.    What they envisioned was arms available for individuals to protect themselves. 

I am not against all arms control, briefcase nuclear devices are not current technology (but maybe soon).  Chemical and Biological agents scare the crap out of me.  The needs to be a balance in this control.  My gun control stance is best summed up by the events in Tampa:

http://www.examiner.com/article/firearms-possession-law-will-stand-tampa-during-rnc

....At issue lately is an appeal from the Democrat mayor of Tampa Bob Buckhorn to the state's Republican governor Rick Scott to create a temporary order that prevents law-abiding citizens from lawful carry within a designated downtown area that will host the Republican National Convention in August.  The request, under no uncertain terms, was denied.

Scott wrote that, while he shared Buckhorn’s concern about violent anti-government protests and other civil unrest, “it is unclear how disarming law-abiding citizens would better protect them from the dangers and threats posed by those who would flout the law" - that it is "at just such times that the constitutional right to self-defense is most precious and must be protected from government overreach,” (a term not cognitively processed in the minds of Democrats)...

 The bottom line issue is why should law abiding citizens have their rights denied because of what law breaker do?  And owning arms is a right by the US constition. 

[urleft]

The number 1 cause of death and injury in the world is traffic accidents, makes gun deaths start to be insignificant by comparison.

We need to ban all cars, trucks and scooters for safety.  Note that vehicles and drivers are already licensed, and it is not working. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Not only do people in the USA like to kill themselves with guns as compared to the UK (10.27 per 100k v .46 for England and Wales)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

They also like to kill themselves with their cars too (12.3 per 100K v 3.6)

Interesting to see that there is a massive difference between the two ratios - 10.27 / 0.46 for gun related deaths compared with 12.3 / 3/6 for traffic related deaths. I wonder why that is ?

Maybe because the UK has about 31 million registered vehicles while the US has over 250 Million registered passanger vehicles, this does not include commercial transportations.  It is common in the US for families to have at least one car for each registered driver, not to mention having the additional Harley, work truck, and Man toy (e.g., porsche 911). 

There are amost 8 million miles of roads and highways in the US while the UK has less than 90,000 KMs or roads and highways. 

Overall, public transportation in the US is lousy, Americans drives their cars and do not largely used public transportation (there are some places this is not true such as NY and SF).

So with 10 times as many vehicles, a vast amount of roads, you can expect to have more accidents. 

[nookiebear]

This is making good reading.......Urleft you should have been a gravedigger

[urleft]

This is making good reading.......Urleft you should have been a gravedigger

My dad picked up bodies for the Wayne County (Detroit) Morgue and is a licensed Mortician (this is true).  People were always dying to see him.  I once found a nose on the dinning room table (my dad's art project).  However, I chose a different career path. 

[ischme]

The number 1 cause of death and injury in the world is traffic accidents, makes gun deaths start to be insignificant by comparison.

We need to ban all cars, trucks and scooters for safety.  Note that vehicles and drivers are already licensed, and it is not working. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Not only do people in the USA like to kill themselves with guns as compared to the UK (10.27 per 100k v .46 for England and Wales)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

They also like to kill themselves with their cars too (12.3 per 100K v 3.6)

Interesting to see that there is a massive difference between the two ratios - 10.27 / 0.46 for gun related deaths compared with 12.3 / 3/6 for traffic related deaths. I wonder why that is ?

Maybe because the UK has about 31 million registered vehicles while the US has over 250 Million registered passanger vehicles, this does not include commercial transportations.  It is common in the US for families to have at least one car for each registered driver, not to mention having the additional Harley, work truck, and Man toy (e.g., porsche 911). 

There are amost 8 million miles of roads and highways in the US while the UK has less than 90,000 KMs or roads and highways. 

Overall, public transportation in the US is lousy, Americans drives their cars and do not largely used public transportation (there are some places this is not true such as NY and SF).

So with 10 times as many vehicles, a vast amount of roads, you can expect to have more accidents.

So the UK has 344.444 cars per kilometre. The US has only 31.25.

The Americans must be really bad drivers. All that room and you still crash into each other.

[jasonWeiss]

Too true, I have a couple of rifles myself, doesn't mean I'm gonna go out to kill people.  The only problem i have with Guns in the States is how easy you can get hold of one (in some states).  Free shotgun when you open a bank account in one bank in a certain state and ammunition for sale over the counter in wallmart without having to show a gun licence.  There should at least be some kind of check on the way to a gun.

I agree with you. There are states who imposes gun ban but there are states that you can easily get a gun without the need of a cash advance. I understand that having a gun of your own is a mean to protect yourself but some people abused the freedom to hold one. That's why i don't even wonder why the crime rate is not going down.

[urleft]

Well, here's an Amercan Gun Culture we can probably agree on:

http://secondamendmentfreedom.blogspot.com/2012/05/federal-appeals-courts-continue-ruling.html


Federal Appeals Courts Say Illegal Aliens Have No 2nd Amendment Gun Rights


Emmanuel Huitron–Guizar entered a conditional guilty plea to being an illegal alien in possession of firearms. He was sentenced to 18 months in prison, and then will be deported when he finishes the sentence.

According to the Court's opinion, “Mr. Huitron–Guizar was born in Mexico and brought to Wyoming at age three. In March 2011, officers executed a warrant on his home and discovered three firearms—a 7.62x39mm rifle, a 12–gauge semi-automatic shotgun, and a Smith & Wesson semi-automatic pistol. They learned from his sister that Mr. Huitron–Guizar, now 24 years old, was, unlike her, not a U.S. citizen.”1

He argued to the Court that his conviction for illegal possession of firearms violated his “Second Amendment Rights” as interpreted by the Heller decision that the, “Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm, unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, like self-defense within the home.”1

The Court pointed out to Mr. Huitron-Guizar that, “…no right is absolute. The right to bear arms, however venerable, is qualified by what one might call the “who,” “what,” “where,” “when,” and “why.” For instance, it is unlawful to knowingly receive guns with obliterated serial numbers… A juvenile, with some exceptions, cannot possess a handgun…. An airline passenger may not carry aboard a concealed firearm …Nor may a drug dealer use or carry a weapon to protect his stash…” 1

The Court then turned its attention to the Gun Control Act of 1968 saying, “…amended Gun Control Act of 1968, forbids gun possession by nine classes of individuals: felons, fugitives, addicts or users of controlled substances, the mentally ill, illegal and non-immigrant aliens, the dishonorably discharged, renouncers of their citizenship, those subject to court orders for harassing, stalking, or threatening intimate partners or their children, and those convicted for misdemeanor domestic violence. No Second Amendment challenge since Heller to any of these provisions has succeeded.” 1 They then informed him that the illegal alien firearms prohibition was upheld by the 5th Circuit last year.

Huitron–Guizar agreed that, “… those guilty of serious crimes and the mentally ill are sensibly stripped of firearms they might otherwise lawfully keep. Yet he wonders what it is about aliens that permits Congress to impose what he considers a similar disability?”1

The Court said this about Alien’s rights. “Mere lawful presence in the country creates an implied assurance of safe conduct and gives him certain rights; they become more extensive and secure when he makes preliminary declaration of intention to become a citizen, and they expand to those of full citizenship upon naturalization.This ascending scale of constitutional rights is elaborate. An alien outside the country has fewer rights than one within, e.g., an alien held at the border has no right to a deportation hearing. ..An unlawfully present alien has fewer rights than one lawfully here; an illegal alien generally has no right to assert a selective-enforcement claim to thwart deportation. A lawful alien here fewer than five years can be denied enrollment in Medicare, unlike one here for, say, a decade... A temporary resident alien has fewer rights than a permanent resident alien; the former, for example, may be barred from making campaign contributions…Likewise, a lawful permanent resident has fewer rights than a citizen, since a state can form a citizens-only police force. ..Finally, one right is limited to natural born citizens: eligibility to run for president.”1

What it came down to was, “The line separating lawful and unlawful aliens is often as bright as that between aliens and citizens.” That, and the fact that, “Federal statutes that classify based on alienage need only a rational basis; they flow from plenary powers over admission, exclusion, naturalization, national security, and foreign relations.”1

Finding the law denying gun rights to Illegal Aliens Constitutional on a "Rational Basis" simply meant that the Government had to show to the Court that the law was rationally connected to its objective. This is the least strict way to interpret a law’s Constitutionality.

The Court closed the door completely on Illegal aliens’ gun rights here by saying,“That Congress saw fit to exclude illegal aliens from carrying guns may indicate its belief, entitled to our respect, that such aliens, as a class, possess no such constitutional right.”1

1  UNITED STATES v. HUITRON GUIZARUNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff–Appellee, v. Emmanuel HUITRON–GUIZAR, Defendant–Appellant. No. 11–8051.-- May 07, 2012

[urleft]

And some American Gun Humor:

You may have heard on the news about a southern California man put under 72-hour psychiatric observation when it was found he owned 100 guns and allegedly had (by rough estimate) 100,000 rounds of ammunition stored in his home. The house also featured a secret escape tunnel.

My favorite quote from the dimwit television reporter: “Wow! He has about a quarter million machine gun bullets.” The headline referred to it as a “massive weapons cache”.

By southern California standards someone owning 100,000 rounds would be called “mentally unstable”. Just imagine if he lived elsewhere:

In Arizona , he’d be called “an avid gun collector”.

In Texas , he’d be called “a novice gun collector”.

In Utah , he’d be called “moderately well prepared”, but they’d probably reserve judgment until they made sure that he had a corresponding quantity of stored food.

In Montana , he’d be called “The neighborhood ‘Go-To’ guy”.

In Idaho , he’d be called “a likely gubernatorial candidate”.

In Wyoming , he’d be called “an eligible bachelor”.

In Wisconsin , he’d be called “a deer hunting buddy”.

And, in Alabama , we just call him “Bubba or Urleft”.

[urleft]

Urleft you need to have a close look at yourself,,,,,Let me give you something else to chew on....Anyone who isnt American knows why!!

Well as more evidence comes public, I get more and more confused on why Anyone who isnt American knows why!!



 George Zimmerman had a broken nose, two black eyes and two cuts on his scalp the day after he killed Florida teen Trayvon Martin, medical records indicate.


Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/05/16/Report-Zimmerman-had-broken-nose/UPI-36141337151600/#ixzz1vEPnjKvA



Travon (the victim) had drugs on his system:

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/18513184/trayvon-martin-had-drugs-in-system-at-time-of-death-report-says?clienttype=printable
 

 
And a witness said Travon was giving Zimmerman an MMA style beating before the shooting.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/martin-zimmerman-witness-758903
 
 
So in American, if a guy is beating the crap out of you, you can use deadly force (that means shoot him), as opposed to other countries that prosecute the guy that uses the gun to save himself. 
 
 
I am impressed that "everyone" with spokesman Nookie knew all this and "knew why".  But because I am a dumb American that tries to get the facts before I come to a conclusion, I still have no idea why "Anyone who isnt American knows why!!" 

Again, what are you talking about?
 

 

[mike]

Urleft you need to have a close look at yourself,,,,,Let me give you something else to chew on....Anyone who isnt American knows why!!

Well as more evidence comes public, I get more and more confused on why Anyone who isnt American knows why!!
 
I am impressed that "everyone" with spokesman Nookie knew all this and "knew why".  But because I am a dumb American that tries to get the facts before I come to a conclusion, I still have no idea why "Anyone who isnt American knows why!!" 

Again, what are you talking about?

Maybe this will help you understand ......

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57436193-504083/florida-family-massacre-911-call-shows-neighbors-wouldnt-help-kids-before-tonya-thomas-killed-themhem-911-tape-says/

Or this

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/jan/27/jim-moran/rep-jim-moran-says-us-gun-homicide-rate-20-times-h/

Or this

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

Or this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gun-crime+usa

Mike